The Doctor Who Discussion Thread

[Cake for Brains]

I've only just managed to catch up with this year's Christmas Special and whilst I'll concede that it was much better than last year's effort (but then again so are piles and genital warts), I came away disappointed.

I just couldn't engage with it emotionally on any level and the storyline was pretty much non-existent. Poor silly threat, poor silly resolution, poor secondary characters (as per usual). Even Matt Smith got on my nerves and the preview for the upcoming series looked dull.

Jenna Louise Coleman's character was toned down quite a bit from her appearance in Asylum of the Daleks and the 'mystery' surroudning her character (or characters) introduced at the end was the only saving grace of a turkey of an episode.

And a belated Merry Christmas fellow FO Whovians!

[Moon-Crane]

Heh, fair enough, but i don't agree. I enjoyed the playfulness of the episode and the secondary characters.

[Emil]

After finally having seen the whole episode, some thoughts on "The snowmen".
- I liked it.
- The eleventh Doctor does an awful lot of kissing. Just as Amy, Clara starts off their companionship with a fiery kiss.
- The phrase "Doctor who?" is used four times in a single episode. Steven Moffat really likes that.
- The trailer for next season makes it more than clear that the major story arc is going to revolve around Clara's identity.
- Apparently (from the trailer again), Vastra, Jenny (?) and Strax are going to form a permanent gang of companions. Is that a good thing? Not sure.

[Paul B]

Don't know if any Who fans are still around, but:

http://www.digitalspy.co.uk/tv/s7/docto ... ecial.html

To be honest, I'm more excited for this than I am tonight's episode... I would've preferred Donna, mind you.

[Moon-Crane]

I probably won't catch up with the new episodes until the week after next. I am looking forward to them though.

Be interested to see how the whole 50th anniversary pans out. You reckon it'll be a kitchen sink job with as many characters as they can get from the previous years - with a mix of 'classic' and modern? I haven't really heard anything given away, and anybody involved has been very secretive.

[Paul B]

A mixed return, but as has been all too common with the show as of late, the plot was wafer thin and plodded along to a predictable climax, and introducing Clara for a third time felt like overkill. It feels like Moffat has used up all his ideas at this point.

I'll continue to watch, but this is not the show it once was.

[Paul B]

Another mess of an episode, really. All style over substance and rather self indulgent. Getting rather fed up with the show now. I'm guessing others think the same as I seem to be the only one still watching. The plots are there, but they never go anywhere and everything is always resolved in a contrived, lazy fashion. Everything feels empty and aimless. Clara barely has any character and the mystery surrounding her deaths is not as enticing as the show would like me to think. I've never been overly fond of 11, but as I liked his companions it was never really an issue. Now there is no one to keep me watching. It seems the show has simply run out of steam and has no fresh ideas left. I never thought I'd say this, but I'm considering giving up on my beloved Doctor Who. I'll undoubtedly watch the anniversary special primarily for Tennant, but it's no skin off my nose if I miss an episode here or there anymore. I'm so disappointed that it's come to this.

[Cake for Brains]

I'm inclined to agree with you about Doctor Who. The magic just isn't there. Matt Smith's Doctor doesn't felt like a fully-rounded character - more just an annoying, prancing bag of eccentricities and quirks. Clara is dull and I couldn't care less about who she is or her stupid leaf. The premiere was perhaps less up itself than most Moffat-era Who - but to me it just felt like Partners in Crime without character, heart or Adipose. Just set-pieces and wisecracks. The most recent episode was arguably the worst episode of Doctor Who in its 50 year history. I can't think of a single redeeming feature.

Whether or not I'll completely give up on the show remains to be seen but watching each new episodes feels like more of a chore than a pleasure these days. I rarely find myself watching on live broadcast anymore, which I think speaks volumes when you consider how the show used to excite me in years gone by. Like you say, a real shame.

[Paul B]

Hi Cakey. Yeah I haven't been watching live anymore. It used to be appointment television. Now it's something I feel like I have to watch. This is how it got to be with The Simpsons.

I'll no doubt tune in for the episode penned by Neil Gaiman as "The Doctor's Wife" still remains one of my favourites from recent years, and the 50th anniversary as I said earlier. But I'm not optimistic about seeing a Tenth Doctor as written by Moffat. While I still adore Moffat's episodes from the RTD era, it's clear to me now just why they were so good - they had RTD's polish, which the show now sorely misses.

[Cake for Brains]

Hi Cakey. Yeah I haven't been watching live anymore. It used to be appointment television. Now it's something I feel like I have to watch. This is how it got to be with The Simpsons.

I'll no doubt tune in for the episode penned by Neil Gaiman as "The Doctor's Wife" still remains one of my favourites from recent years, and the 50th anniversary as I said earlier. But I'm not optimistic about seeing a Tenth Doctor as written by Moffat. While I still adore Moffat's episodes from the RTD era, it's clear to me now just why they were so good - they had RTD's polish, which the show now sorely misses.

Hey Paul, always nice to catch up. It's the same for me - to be fair, I'm rarely at home on a Saturday evening these days anyway, but even if I am, watching Doctor Who never exactly strikes me as a particularly appealing option anyway. That said, I'll also be making an effort to tune in for the Gaiman episode and rumour has it that River Song will be returning for the finale, so I'll be dipping in for that too.

And just because Who has somewhat lost our attentions of late, doesn't mean we can't stay in touch. Feel free to PM me if you fancy a chat about this, that and everything.

[Moon-Crane]

Caught up with the first four episodes since it's return to air. I must be watching adifferent show to you guys as the only one i didn't care for was the second episode featuring that bloody girl singing (having to listen to children singing is one of the most grating sounds i can imagine). That story simply didn't go anywhere. I have, however, enjoyed the subsequent two episodes in the submarine and the haunted house.

I guess it helps that i like Matt Smith, though.

Funny that i never rated the earlier years as highly as you do, or rate the current run as lowly as you do. There were definitely RTD episodes on a par with that second episode for dullness and rambling and lack of any point.

[Cake for Brains]

Caught up with the first four episodes since it's return to air. I must be watching adifferent show to you guys as the only one i didn't care for was the second episode featuring that bloody girl singing (having to listen to children singing is one of the most grating sounds i can imagine). That story simply didn't go anywhere. I have, however, enjoyed the subsequent two episodes in the submarine and the haunted house.

I guess it helps that i like Matt Smith, though.

Funny that i never rated the earlier years as highly as you do, or rate the current run as lowly as you do. There were definitely RTD episodes on a par with that second episode for dullness and rambling and lack of any point.

There really, really wasn't. The RTD era feels like a fading dream compared to the dross we have now. I managed 25 minutes of last Saturday's episode before switching off. No heart, no character, no plot, no point.

[Moon-Crane]

There really, really wasn't. The RTD era feels like a fading dream compared to the dross we have now. I managed 25 minutes of last Saturday's episode before switching off. No heart, no character, no plot, no point.

No, there really, really was. Trust me, as a more impartial observer of both guys. Not at all saying the current era is better than the RTD era, but there were plenty enough ropey episodes in those days. The Doctor's Daughter and The Unicorn and the Wasp immediately spring to mind.

I personally enjoyed the latest episode a lot. There was a plot and a point. I saw the point to it, anyway - probably in the same way you see a point to the Midnight episode that everyone else disliked.

I liked Russell's control of the show, even if i didn't exactly enjoy his need to feature almost every character in living memory for a cameo during each season's finale. Each to their own, and all that. I'm probably lucky that it's never been my favourite show to worry about it being constantly tinkered with. I guess you know how those crazy hardcore classic era fan/RTD haters feel about 'new who' now.

Just stop watching and pretend Doctor Who only ran 05-08 - just like i pretend none of the Only Fools And Horses stuff really exists after Time On Our Hands brought the show to a perfect close!

[Paul B]

There really, really wasn't. The RTD era feels like a fading dream compared to the dross we have now. I managed 25 minutes of last Saturday's episode before switching off. No heart, no character, no plot, no point.

No, there really, really was. Trust me, as a more impartial observer of both guys. Not at all saying the current era is better than the RTD era, but there were plenty enough ropey episodes in those days. The Doctor's Daughter and The Unicorn and the Wasp immediately spring to mind.

I personally enjoyed the latest episode a lot. There was a plot and a point. I saw the point to it, anyway - probably in the same way you see a point to the Midnight episode that everyone else disliked.

I liked Russell's control of the show, even if i didn't exactly enjoy his need to feature almost every character in living memory for a cameo during each season's finale. Each to their own, and all that. I'm probably lucky that it's never been my favourite show to worry about it being constantly tinkered with. I guess you know how those crazy hardcore classic era fan/RTD haters feel about 'new who' now.

Just stop watching and pretend Doctor Who only ran 05-08 - just like i pretend none of the Only Fools And Horses stuff really exists after Time On Our Hands brought the show to a perfect close!

I still enjoy S5 and 6 a great deal, I just think it's taken a massive downward slump in the latest season. I'm not a fan of the standalone blockbuster style at all, I think it robs the show of any potential character development or depth, sacrificing them for the sake of 'epic' movie-like stories. And it's become more apparent than ever that there are no original ideas left. To me, it simply doesn't feel like Doctor Who anymore.

Think what you will about RTD - his era certainly had its share of flaws - but I think he kept the show far more consistent than it is now. Nowadays it feels like a slog to get through to the next Moffat episode, which are about the only ones guaranteed to be any good - but even those aren't as worth waiting for anymore.

I'm not ready to give up on the show yet, but the fact that I've yet to watch the last 3 episodes when I haven't missed an episode on its original airing for 8 years speaks volumes, at least to me.

And I happen to adore The Unicorn and the Wasp.

[Moon-Crane]

In spite of my defence of the current show, i do still think RTD makes for a better showrunner. Maybe because he appears to have the show more in his heart - i don't know. But i guess i don't rate the RTD era as highly or the Moffat era as lowly. I've rarely been able to watch the show 'live' anyway - generally had it recorded and ready for later on saturday evening.

Anyway, I'd agree that the RTD era contains the best episodes.

The Unicorn and the Wasp never really did it for me, but it's all subjective. I don't even think it's generally regarded as a bad episode. If i'd just used Midnight and Human Nature/Family of Blood as examples then i think Cakey may have taken it as a personal attack and hunted me down

I can certainly pick crap in the last three seasons, though. As i mentioned, i completely disliked the current season's effort with the singing kid - ugghh. And let's not mention those technicolour daleks.

Paul, when you get to the latest three, let us know what you think. I enjoyed them, anyway.

[Paul B]

All caught up now. Quick thoughts:

Cold War - 5/10
Very boring. Mark Gatiss. No surprises there. How can the show make a warrior stalking its prey throughout a cold war submarine so relentlessly uninteresting? Oh well, there we are.

Hide - 6/10
Worth it just for the conversation between the Doctor and Clara in the TARDIS, which at last humanised Clara a little. She still comes across as an Amy clone.

Journey to the Center of the TARDIS - 6.5/10
Perhaps didn't live up to all the potential of an adventure in the TARDIS, but what was there was decent.

The Crimson Horror - 8.5/10
What's this? Mark Gatiss wrote my favourite episode of S7? I take back what I said up there! An expertly realised villain, a good if not overly original story, delightful little touches such as the flashback film reel, and the always welcome team of Vastra/Jenny/Strax made for a highly enjoyable episode.

Nightmare in Silver - 7/10
It had a lot to live up to with Gaiman's previous contribution, but this was a visual treat that finally utilised the Cybermen decently and had many of his hallmarks that I so appreciate. Plus, Warwick Davis is always great.

The Name of the Doctor - 8/10
With a title like that, I had a lot of expectations and for the most part it delivered. This really felt like one for the fans. I loved the incorporation of old footage and like an abused spouse, the final revelation will at least guarantee I'll come crawling back to the show like I always do.

S7 on the whole was the show's weakest season, but it pulled itself together somewhat at the end.

[Cake for Brains]

Interesting to read your thoughts Paul. I still haven't seen 'Nightmare in Steel' but I've caught up with the rest and sadly wasn't impressed. Some good ideas bubbling under the surface but somehow no episode quite managed to deliver on its potential. Considering Moffat was aiming for big, blockbuster 'movie-of-the-week' type stories, I was expecting all-out, exciting action romps. But no episode felt filmic to me - could be down to the pacing, which I think has been a bit all over the place.

The finale, in particular, was a big nonsensical timey-wimey mess. Am I really supposed to go back and watch the William Hartnell episodes and be like 'Well, that's because of Clara and her magic leaf'. Quite egotistical writing on Moffat's part - actually felt like a bit of a slap-in-the-face to the show's legacy to me, even though I'm sure that wasn't the intention. Clara never felt like a fully-formed companion. Given the revelation at the end of 'The Name of the Doctor', I suppose you could argue there's now a very good reason for that but that still doesn't make up for the fact that she's been bland, insipid and forgettable.

[Moon-Crane]

I liked all of those eps from Cold War onwards. Particularly enjoyed those final three. There's plenty of life left in the old show as far as i'm concerned.

[Paul B]

Matt Smith to leave in Christmas special

Gotta say, wasn't expecting that. I expected him to at least see series 8 to the end. Not too disappointed by it though - I got a little bored of him this series, so it'll be exciting to see some fresh blood come onboard. I wonder whether Moffat will continue to run things.

[Moon-Crane]

Matt Smith to leave in Christmas special

Gotta say, wasn't expecting that. I expected him to at least see series 8 to the end. Not too disappointed by it though - I got a little bored of him this series, so it'll be exciting to see some fresh blood come onboard. I wonder whether Moffat will continue to run things.

I'd heard rumours that he'd quit, but as there'd been nothing official, until now, i'd assumed it was gossip. It probably makes sense to bow out now (well at xmas anyway).

I hope they go for somebody older this time. If it ends up being Russell Tovey i'll kick the tv through the wall

[Forever Jung]

I see Paris Jackson has threw her nae in the hat for the role of the next Doctor