Fan Dividers - "The Crucible"

[Mr Blue Sky]

S1 has three or four poor eps in my opinion. This is certainly one of them. The first half isn't too bad but (nice cameo from John Rubinstein aside) the second half is very dull. The whole ep contains many out of character moments too. I suppose some leeway should be given as this was only the 6th episode of the show and it was obviously still finding it's feet but honestly, can anyone imagine Niles throwing a brick through a window in a million years?

After the not-so-fan-dividing Focus Group poll I'm hoping this will provoke more of a split decision...

[CatNamedRudy]

HATE IT!

Want me to divulge top secret information? Make me watch The Crucible! I don't hate it as much as a few others but I hate it a lot!

It's boring and the end is so ridiculously out of character I just want to scream!

[Wezzo]

When I first watched it I didn't think it was any weaker than the rest of the spectacular S1.

Now I'd rate it lower but it's still very good in my book. I LOVE it.

[Stratman]

Hate it!

[Mayday Malone]

What the hell, I like it.

[welshben23]

I don't hate it, but I dislike it more than I like it.

[Mayday Malone]

You see someone should be saying "hate" is a strong word...perhaps I Love It or I Dislike It should be the options methinks!

[welshben23]

You see someone should be saying "hate" is a strong word...perhaps I Love It or I Dislike It should be the options methinks!

I agree, there's probably only 3 or 4 episodes in the whole 11 series that I really hate with a passion.

[ouroboros]

Hate it but actually have no problem with Niles smashing the window.

[Bee Gees Fan]

I voted for "Love it", because I like that episode - it's one of my favourites of Season One.

[Dorset Girl]

More at the 'hate' end of the scale than 'love' - and no, Niles shouldn't have smashed that window, too weird / out of character.

[Mary]

I agree with comments about Niles window smashing - not in keeping with his character.
The fact that Frasier seemed to give up too easily on getting redress for the mis-sold painting was also not very satsifactory.
But there were some good parts in this episode aswell.
I cannot say I hate it, so voted for love it.

[CatNamedRudy]

Aside from the issue of Niles and window (which irritates me immensly) my biggest problem with it is from a legal standpoint.

Frasier was sold a counterfeit piece of art. That's called FRAUD and for Martin to tell him that they wouldn't do anything about it is ridiculous. That's actually a pretty serious crime considering that Frasier probably paid a pretty penny for that ugly ass work of art! And there is absolutley no way Frasier would have given up like he did!

[Dorset Girl]

Aside from the issue of Niles and window (which irritates me immensly) my biggest problem with it is from a legal standpoint.

Frasier was sold a counterfeit piece of art. That's called FRAUD and for Martin to tell him that they wouldn't do anything about it is ridiculous. That's actually a pretty serious crime considering that Frasier probably paid a pretty penny for that ugly ass work of art! And there is absolutley no way Frasier would have given up like he did!

Was Martin referring to the fact that the police were too busy to deal with it? Admittedly, he would have paid a lot for the painting, but in reality, would the police actually have the resources to dedicate to it? I'm not sure they would in the UK, to be honest.

[CatNamedRudy]

Aside from the issue of Niles and window (which irritates me immensly) my biggest problem with it is from a legal standpoint.

Frasier was sold a counterfeit piece of art. That's called FRAUD and for Martin to tell him that they wouldn't do anything about it is ridiculous. That's actually a pretty serious crime considering that Frasier probably paid a pretty penny for that ugly ass work of art! And there is absolutley no way Frasier would have given up like he did!

Was Martin referring to the fact that the police were too busy to deal with it? Admittedly, he would have paid a lot for the painting, but in reality, would the police actually have the resources to dedicate to it? I'm not sure they would in the UK, to be honest.

It's a major crime that would have been investigated! You better believe it! It's called THEFT by Fraud! It's no different than any other type of theft. Had Frasier paid for repair work that wasn't done, the police would investigate it! It's no different.

[Mary]

I do agree that it would be investigated.

I got the impression that this counterfeit painting was not a big deal to the art gallery owner, which implies to me that Frasier's painting was just the tip of the iceberg, which then also may imply the possibility of other crimes also going on, so I think this would be taken seriously by the police.

[Dorset Girl]

I do agree that it would be investigated.

I got the impression that this counterfeit painting was not a big deal to the art gallery owner, which implies to me that Frasier's painting was just the tip of the iceberg, which then also may imply the possibility of other crimes also going on, so I think this would be taken seriously by the police.

Good point.

Do you think the writers intended us to look at it this deeply? I'm not saying that we shouldn't, I enjoy analysing the episodes. I just wonder how much of this was actually in their heads when they penned the script.

[CatNamedRudy]

I do agree that it would be investigated.

I got the impression that this counterfeit painting was not a big deal to the art gallery owner, which implies to me that Frasier's painting was just the tip of the iceberg, which then also may imply the possibility of other crimes also going on, so I think this would be taken seriously by the police.

Good point.

Do you think the writers intended us to look at it this deeply? I'm not saying that we shouldn't, I enjoy analysing the episodes. I just wonder how much of this was actually in their heads when they penned the script.

I'm sure the writers don't count on people analyzing the episodes to death and I try not to do that too much with sitcoms but for me, this was pretty blantantly bad! It was one of the things that wrecked the whole episode for me. (aside from it being generally boring).

If I really like an episode and think it's funny, I try to overlook some of the stupid stuff that happens. (Like when exactly did Niles and Lilith drink those Tequilla shooters?) But I can't overlook The Crucible!

[Mary]

Well I was definately taking it too seriously!
It's just that way the whole counterfeit painting is handled in the episode jars a bit, I think they should have done it better.

[Bee Gees Fan]

Frasier was sold a counterfeit piece of art. That's called FRAUD and for Martin to tell him that they wouldn't do anything about it is ridiculous. That's actually a pretty serious crime considering that Frasier probably paid a pretty penny for that ugly ass work of art! And there is absolutley no way Frasier would have given up like he did!

I never even considered that; I just believed Martin, but that makes sense. And if the gallery is making a habit out of that kind of thing, then it would be important for the police to investigate it.

Question: everyone seems to agree that it was out of character for Niles to throw the brick. But if it had been Frasier who had thrown it, would you think it was out of character for him?

I'm not sure. Usually, he'd never dream of doing that kind of thing, but when he gets very mad, he can often act irrationally and impulsively. He was obsessing about the painting, and it didn't surprise me at all that he turned up there, ready to throw the brick through the window.

[Dorset Girl]

Question: everyone seems to agree that it was out of character for Niles to throw the brick. But if it had been Frasier who had thrown it, would you think it was out of character for him?

Yes, I would still think it was out of character, but at least we would have seen exactly what led him to it, whereas although Niles had his reasonings too, it seemed to come somewhat out of the blue, in the middle of a scene concentrating on Frasier.

[CatNamedRudy]

I think it would have been out of character for Frasier as well. I can see him going there and thinking about it as he did but to go through with it? I just don't see it. (although I can see if from Frasier more than I can see it from Niles)

[Mayday Malone]

The Frasier Crane from Cheers would have sure as heck did it with Norm, Cliff and Woody in attendance.

[Moon-Crane]

probably one of the weaker ones of s1 but i still like it. it's aggravating to watch what happens to frasier, but also quite amusing. i'll vote love.

[Moon-Crane]

After the not-so-fan-dividing Focus Group poll I'm hoping this will provoke more of a split decision...

It certainly is split this time