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How Will You Vote in the Forthcoming UK Elections?

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How Will You Vote in the Forthcoming UK Elections?

Conservative
1
9%
Labour
4
36%
Liberal Democrat
3
27%
Green Party
0
No votes
BNP
0
No votes
UKIP
0
No votes
Other
0
No votes
I won't vote - can't be bothered
0
No votes
I won't vote - politics doesn't interest me
2
18%
I won't vote - I feel disenfranchised from the whole damn system!
1
9%
I'll be voting - but I'd prefer not to say who for
0
No votes
 
Total votes : 11

Re: How Will You Vote in the Forthcoming UK Elections?

Postby Moon-Crane » Thu Apr 15, 2010 1:22 pm

Dorset Girl wrote:Ideally, maybe I should step back and look at the bigger picture, but I can't do that. Too many local issues and my personal circumstances are making that impossible for me to do.


I'm actually looking at local issues more this time around. I think i've banged on around this forum about personal grievances towards current local transport policy which is, imo, causing the destruction of our rather decent road network. I want to try and email candidates directly, each from the perspective of a suggestively pro-car and anti-car stance respectively to compare the responses given. I suspect each party will talk selective bollocks depending on how they can gauge the stance of the person they're answering.

On your other point about personal circumstances - we're not a high income household, and people never really understand why i'd be against raising any top level of income tax. I don't believe anyone should have to pay more than 20% of their earnings to the government, and i'll never realistically be in those top bands that currently pay 40%-50%. That's a ludicrous amount. It works at the bottom end too, though, where i don't think raises and bonuses should be based purely on percentage increases. A 5% pay rise to a £10k wage earner only widens the gap between haves and have-nots when the £1,000,000 MD gets his 5% (and it usually, perversely, works out that the top earners get a larger % rate increase than the 'minions' anyway, to exacerbate it). Again that's away from the political topic.
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Re: How Will You Vote in the Forthcoming UK Elections?

Postby Moon-Crane » Thu Apr 15, 2010 1:27 pm

Anyone going to watch the live debate on ITV tonight? I've had TalkSport on in the background all day, which usally has more than its fair share of people calling in to moan about politicians and the state of the country, yet they ran a poll where 78% claimed they'd not bother to watch it. While i'd never call their audience a real selection of the public in general, it tends to sums up a general apathy.
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Re: How Will You Vote in the Forthcoming UK Elections?

Postby Dorset Girl » Thu Apr 15, 2010 3:12 pm

Moon-Crane wrote:Anyone going to watch the live debate on ITV tonight? I've had TalkSport on in the background all day, which usally has more than its fair share of people calling in to moan about politicians and the state of the country, yet they ran a poll where 78% claimed they'd not bother to watch it. While i'd never call their audience a real selection of the public in general, it tends to sums up a general apathy.


I'd like to watch it, but it depends whether Keren will let me!

I don't feel apathetic as such, I just don't think that our choices are that great. I think I've said this before, but for me, it's a case of voting for the least worst party, rather than the best.

We have five candidates standing here - Lab, Con, Lib Dem, Green and UKIP. My parents are both going to vote UKIP. I was kind of hoping there would be someone whacky standing too (makes it more interesting when the results are read out :lol: ), but there isn't.
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Re: How Will You Vote in the Forthcoming UK Elections?

Postby Mr Blue Sky » Fri Apr 16, 2010 9:30 am

Moon-Crane wrote:Anyone going to watch the live debate on ITV tonight? I've had TalkSport on in the background all day, which usally has more than its fair share of people calling in to moan about politicians and the state of the country, yet they ran a poll where 78% claimed they'd not bother to watch it. While i'd never call their audience a real selection of the public in general, it tends to sums up a general apathy.


In that case I presume you’ll have “We Buy Any Car, Dot Com… We Buy Any Car, Dot Com…Any…Any…Any…Any…” going around your head all day? :wink:

Trying to be completely impartial here, but in terms of how the candidates presented themselves I’d say Clegg came out on top, then Brown, then Cameron. Cameron looked extremely nervous to me which was surprising as I remember his first ever PMQs where he gave a very assured performance.

In terms of what they actually had to say I believe Clegg was just pedalling a bunch of crowd-pleasing easy answers but if my wife’s reaction was anything to go by it certainly had an effect on the lay-person. I heard one commentator say this morning that all the candidates missed the point of last night’s historic debate which was much more about how they presented themselves and how they came across rather than the meat and bones of what they had to say. Depressing, but probably accurate.

If Cameron loses this election from such a strong initial position historians may well point to his nervous demeanour last night as the primary cause. It wasn’t quite as bad as ‘sweaty Nixon’ from the famous 1960 debate with JFK but it wasn’t far off.
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Re: How Will You Vote in the Forthcoming UK Elections?

Postby Dorset Girl » Fri Apr 16, 2010 10:46 am

Mr Blue Sky wrote:In that case I presume you’ll have “We Buy Any Car, Dot Com… We Buy Any Car, Dot Com…Any…Any…Any…Any…” going around your head all day? :wink:


You've got to admit, it's a very effective ad, that one! If the goal of commercials is to get the product to stay in your head, then this one most definitely succeeds. :lol:

Trying to be completely impartial here, but in terms of how the candidates presented themselves I’d say Clegg came out on top, then Brown, then Cameron. Cameron looked extremely nervous to me which was surprising as I remember his first ever PMQs where he gave a very assured performance.

In terms of what they actually had to say I believe Clegg was just pedalling a bunch of crowd-pleasing easy answers but if my wife’s reaction was anything to go by it certainly had an effect on the lay-person. I heard one commentator say this morning that all the candidates missed the point of last night’s historic debate which was much more about how they presented themselves and how they came across rather than the meat and bones of what they had to say. Depressing, but probably accurate.

If Cameron loses this election from such a strong initial position historians may well point to his nervous demeanour last night as the primary cause. It wasn’t quite as bad as ‘sweaty Nixon’ from the famous 1960 debate with JFK but it wasn’t far off.


I think Clegg came across the best too, but maybe some viewers will realise that it was mainly because his party doesn't have a track record of fucking up when in power?! Brown and Cameron couldn't say "we've seen what ten years of Lib Dem rule can do", etc.! Let's be honest, he also knows that it's extremely unlikely that the party will have the opportunity to fulfill their promises anyway, so perhaps that also allowed him to present an idealised view of what the Lib Dems could/would do?
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Re: How Will You Vote in the Forthcoming UK Elections?

Postby Mr Blue Sky » Fri Apr 16, 2010 2:00 pm

Dorset Girl wrote:You've got to admit, it's a very effective ad, that one! If the goal of commercials is to get the product to stay in your head, then this one most definitely succeeds. :lol:


I'd certainly agree the ad's effective - excruciatingly so! :lol:

I think Clegg came across the best too, but maybe some viewers will realise that it was mainly because his party doesn't have a track record of fucking up when in power?! Brown and Cameron couldn't say "we've seen what ten years of Lib Dem rule can do", etc.! Let's be honest, he also knows that it's extremely unlikely that the party will have the opportunity to fulfill their promises anyway, so perhaps that also allowed him to present an idealised view of what the Lib Dems could/would do?


You're right, I think Clegg did well for exactly the same reason Vince Cable did the best of the three prospective Chancellors in their debate a couple of weeks back. No one was really trying to take chunks out of him, so a two vs one situation happened quite a bit, mostly against Cameron. I do think the Lib Dems can consider themselves very lucky to be on equal footing with the two main parties in these debates seeing as they hold a much smaller share of the vote. This could easily be their most successful election campaign, especially if there's a hung parliament and they get their hands on some real power.
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Re: How Will You Vote in the Forthcoming UK Elections?

Postby Dorset Girl » Fri Apr 16, 2010 2:05 pm

Mr Blue Sky wrote:especially if there's a hung parliament and they get their hands on some real power.


That would actually be my ideal scenario - we could get to see what the Lib Dems could do, without entrusting full responsibility to them, in a way. And maybe a hung parliament would force Labour to reconsider who leads their party. I have to say that Brown came across as being quite human last night, though! I chuckled when he made the joke about his smile on the campaign posters. At least he has a sense of humour about himself. :lol:
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Re: How Will You Vote in the Forthcoming UK Elections?

Postby Moon-Crane » Fri Apr 16, 2010 6:42 pm

Mr Blue Sky wrote:
Moon-Crane wrote:Anyone going to watch the live debate on ITV tonight? I've had TalkSport on in the background all day, which usally has more than its fair share of people calling in to moan about politicians and the state of the country, yet they ran a poll where 78% claimed they'd not bother to watch it. While i'd never call their audience a real selection of the public in general, it tends to sums up a general apathy.


In that case I presume you’ll have “We Buy Any Car, Dot Com… We Buy Any Car, Dot Com…Any…Any…Any…Any…” going around your head all day? :wink:


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Re: How Will You Vote in the Forthcoming UK Elections?

Postby Dorset Girl » Sat Apr 17, 2010 9:46 pm

I hope no one minds me posting these here. I've just been laughing at some of the campaign posters. Have you seen the Ashes to Ashes ones? Labour started it off with this one:

Image

They clearly didn't think about how easily it could be manipulated, and the Conservatives quickly returned fire with this one (I love the 'small print' thanking the Labour Party!):

Image

The ones that really made me chuckle, though, are the manipulations people have created of some of the Tory posters at http://www.mydavidcameron.com/

Here is one of my favourites, click the link above for more:

Image
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Re: How Will You Vote in the Forthcoming UK Elections?

Postby Mr Blue Sky » Sun Apr 18, 2010 7:32 am

Hehe, those are good.
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Re: How Will You Vote in the Forthcoming UK Elections?

Postby Moon-Crane » Sun Apr 18, 2010 12:03 pm

:lol: there's a few good ones on that link.
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Re: How Will You Vote in the Forthcoming UK Elections?

Postby Dorset Girl » Sun Apr 18, 2010 3:52 pm

It seems like Thursday's debate has had a pretty big effect on the polls. The Lib Dems are doing pretty well out of it, anyway. Nick Clegg's also being very clever when casually referring to the other two parties as 'the old parties' - if he keeps doing that, the image could stick, and that could provide another boost for his party.
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Re: How Will You Vote in the Forthcoming UK Elections?

Postby Mr Blue Sky » Mon Apr 19, 2010 6:37 am

Dorset Girl wrote:It seems like Thursday's debate has had a pretty big effect on the polls. The Lib Dems are doing pretty well out of it, anyway. Nick Clegg's also being very clever when casually referring to the other two parties as 'the old parties' - if he keeps doing that, the image could stick, and that could provide another boost for his party.


Yeah, they're definitely beginning to highlight some of the Lib Dem's less populist policies such as wanting to join the Euro, cutting child tax credits and the abolishment of the Child Trust Fund. And I bet there will be much fewer "I agree with Nick"s during the next two live debates as well. :wink:

It'll be interesting to see how Clegg handles this. One commentator last night said we could be living out a future movie here if the polls keep going in the direction they are. At the moment it appears the Lib Dems have a realistic chance of winning, although I suspect many people will change their votes once they get in the polling booths.
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Re: How Will You Vote in the Forthcoming UK Elections?

Postby Dorset Girl » Mon Apr 19, 2010 12:10 pm

Mr Blue Sky wrote:Yeah, they're definitely beginning to highlight some of the Lib Dem's less populist policies such as wanting to join the Euro, cutting child tax credits and the abolishment of the Child Trust Fund.


Thanks for drawing those particular Lib Dem policies to my attention, BS! ;)

No need to worry, I've made up my mind at last anyway. I can't bring myself to vote Tory. I tried to come up with negative lists about the other two parties, as I did with the Conservatives above, but the lists were far shorter! I can't choose between Labour and Lib Dem, so I'm going for a tactical vote. I anticipate there being very little difference between the number of votes for Conservative and Labour in my constituency. I'm therefore going to vote Labour, as every vote for them could count.

Jim Knight, our Labour MP, has given us a lovely SureStart Children's Centre. I am also in agreement with his plans to sort out our schools fiasco. In addition, I've had some personal contact with him via email, and he's come across as friendly, approachable and willing to listen.

There's a down side, though - he was unfortunately one of those caught up in the Expenses scandal. However, as I said at the time, I thought it was all blown out of proportion. He didn't claim for anything that wasn't in the rules, and just as I take full advantage of the perks available to me in my job, it's human nature for other people to do the same. That doesn't justify it - MPs were definitely pushing the boundaries - but I think it's understandable.

Anyway - I'll keep an open mind, but unless any major revelations come along, I'll be voting for Labour on 6th May.
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Re: How Will You Vote in the Forthcoming UK Elections?

Postby Moon-Crane » Mon Apr 19, 2010 1:11 pm

Mr Blue Sky wrote:Yeah, they're definitely beginning to highlight some of the Lib Dem's less populist policies such as wanting to join the Euro, cutting child tax credits and the abolishment of the Child Trust Fund. And I bet there will be much fewer "I agree with Nick"s during the next two live debates as well. :wink:

It'll be interesting to see how Clegg handles this. One commentator last night said we could be living out a future movie here if the polls keep going in the direction they are. At the moment it appears the Lib Dems have a realistic chance of winning, although I suspect many people will change their votes once they get in the polling booths.


Excellent. Two that tick the box for me there anyway. People seem to always moan about the trust fund anyway. Let people choose their own provisions for their children, like they have to do with their own regular savings accounts and pensions, etc.

Cutting child tax credits is a good starting point too, i'd say. They need reforming, and i'd rather start from nothing to start again. Again, let people choose their own future with children using their own money rather than being taxed for it.

As far as the Euro is concerned. It's not going to matter a jot, as all parties will take us into it. it's a question of when not if - unless, of course, the world's Nuked before there's a chance to implement it.

I still haven't added a vote to the poll as i still haven't decided who to vote for, but i'm genuinely interested in people's mentality that no matter what, they think there's only two parties to give the vote to. The least likely for me is Labour, even though i don't actually mind, GB. They simply stand for too much taxation and removal of personal control at this time.
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Re: How Will You Vote in the Forthcoming UK Elections?

Postby Dorset Girl » Mon Apr 19, 2010 1:30 pm

I agree with what you say about the Euro, MC. It's definitely going to happen at some point.

As for the Child Trust Fund and tax credits - I'm sure it's obvious that there's a bit of self-interest going on with me there! They benefit us directly at the moment, and now I'm earning less, the tax credits make more of a difference that they would have done a couple of years ago. However, I would understand if they were scrapped in favour of other schemes, such as improving the NHS, for instance.

High taxation is never popular with voters. I am not against a tax rise, as long as the money is put to good use - unfortunately, I'm not convinced that will happen. There's one European country I read about where taxes are very high, but public services are excellent - I think it's Sweden? I can see the logic in taking that path.

Out of interest, MC - what do you think of the Conservative policies regarding tax breaks for married couples? If I had to choose solely on the basis of child tax credits or marriage tax breaks/credits, I'd choose the latter - even though I don't think that people should be pressured into marrying. But at least that promotes the idea of stable families, rather than giving some irresponsible parents an incentive to have even more children. Sorry if that sounds harsh, but in my experience, an increase in benefits weighs heavily in the decisions of some people to have four, five or even more kids!

EDIT: I also meant to mention something about people only thinking that there are two parties to vote for. Is that genuinely the case - that most people dismiss all the others without a thought? I considered each of the parties standing here, but dismissed the Greens and UKIP quite quickly as their philosophies are pretty far removed from my own. I did this on the basis of their policies, though, rather than just assuming they would be a wasted vote.

It seems unfair to me that only the three main parties were included in the debate last week - however, in practice, the format probably wouldn't work with more than a few parties involved, and the line has to be drawn somewhere.
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Re: How Will You Vote in the Forthcoming UK Elections?

Postby Moon-Crane » Mon Apr 19, 2010 1:48 pm

Dorset Girl wrote:Out of interest, MC - what do you think of the Conservative policies regarding tax breaks for married couples? If I had to choose solely on the basis of child tax credits or marriage tax breaks/credits, I'd choose the latter. At least that promotes the idea of stable families, rather than giving some irresponsible parents an incentive to have even more children. Sorry if that sounds harsh, but in my experience, an increase in benefits weighs heavily in the decisions of some people to have four, five or even more kids!


I don't think either are particularly needed, but the latter makes more sense if you're going to have one of them. I guess you're getting the financial break to then make use of for any children within a supposedly more stable situation?

They're both carrots to try to make people do things though. I'd expect marriage would automatically happen, irrespective of financial benefits, if it's best for that couple's lives overall - not just their wallets. If people prefer to live together without getting married then let them, don't try and bribe them to marry! I'm not sure how it's classed as the natural way of things when we're the only ones of millions of known species who feel the need to do it :lol: Still, better than paying people to keep popping out children. I'm not anti-children - just not sure why people need breaks to have children, especially with no threshold. Maybe we could add tax burden on to people who have more than X number of children instead? :D but ideally i'd rather have it neutral either way. People can do things (or not do things) because they want to (or don't want to).
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Re: How Will You Vote in the Forthcoming UK Elections?

Postby Dorset Girl » Mon Apr 19, 2010 1:50 pm

BTW, I added a little caveat to what I said about marriage - I think you probably started typing your answer before I edited to add it!
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Re: How Will You Vote in the Forthcoming UK Elections?

Postby Moon-Crane » Mon Apr 19, 2010 2:08 pm

Dorset Girl wrote:BTW, I added a little caveat to what I said about marriage - I think you probably started typing your answer before I edited to add it!


yep, i've seen your amend now. Seems to follow what i've said.

Your comment regarding child benefits reminded me of something else actaully.

I was watching the local news a few months back, and there was a report focused on a couple who were complaining that the local authority weren't giving them a 5-bedroom council house because they now had 3 children and the mother was pregnant with a fourth. They lived in a two bedroom council house and they were filmed with the baby in a cot placed in a built-in cupboard space to make the point of the lack of space in the house :lol: They were really having a go at the council and saying how were they expected to live this way? The council representatvie was saying they simply had no houses of that size available at the time and there was a waiting list for many people in similar positions!

Now, my reaction is that you know your means of living and the size of the accomodation you've already been given - why have more children and outgrow that? And why expect the authorities to simply accomodate your needs, rather than waiting until you're independently able to provide for a larger family yourselves? I live in a two-bedroom place with my fiancee and I don't expect anyone else to just give us a bigger house, money to have children, etc.

I'm not saying this couple were having these children just to get more benefits - the report was certainly geared sympathetically towards them - but there seemed to be no thought of self resonsibility for having so many children and being in an overcrowded situation. I think this sort of situation coincides with the point you were making, though.
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Re: How Will You Vote in the Forthcoming UK Elections?

Postby Dorset Girl » Mon Apr 19, 2010 2:39 pm

Moon-Crane wrote:Your comment regarding child benefits reminded me of something else actaully.

I was watching the local news a few months back, and there was a report focused on a couple who were complaining that the local authority weren't giving them a 5-bedroom council house because they now had 3 children and the mother was pregnant with a fourth. They lived in a two bedroom council house and they were filmed with the baby in a cot placed in a built-in cupboard space to make the point of the lack of space in the house :lol: They were really having a go at the council and saying how were they expected to live this way? The council representatvie was saying they simply had no houses of that size available at the time and there was a waiting list for many people in similar positions!

Now, my reaction is that you know your means of living and the size of the accomodation you've already been given - why have more children and outgrow that? And why expect the authorities to simply accomodate your needs, rather than waiting until you're independently able to provide for a larger family yourselves? I live in a two-bedroom place with my fiancee and I don't expect anyone else to just give us a bigger house, money to have children, etc.

I'm not saying this couple were having these children just to get more benefits - the report was certainly geared sympathetically towards them - but there seemed to be no thought of self resonsibility for having so many children and being in an overcrowded situation. I think this sort of situation coincides with the point you were making, though.


I agree with you 100% there. Some people in this country think that it is their right to have as many children as they want, and that they should be supported to do so. What the council should actually give them, instead of a new house, is a pack of condoms!

I watched a documentary a while back about poverty in Britain. I wouldn't ever generalise and say that if people are financially hard up, it's their own fault, because that's simply not true. However - I do think that in some cases, it is their fault, and that bad decisions and lifestyle choices get them there.

One of the families interviewed included two parents and three grown-up daughters. Each of the daughters was a single parent, two of them had multiple children by different fathers. None of them were working, they were all struggling with poor health, run-down housing and drink problems. I know documentaries sometimes play to stereotypes, but usually there's some basis of truth that leads to stereotyping!

Anyway - two of the daughters were pregnant again. One of them was interviewed, and said that she was worried for her baby. She didn't know where they could live, or how she could afford to feed it as her benefits didn't stretch far enough (as she grabs a fresh pack of fags from the table behind her). The interviewer said to her "so why did you decide to have another baby?"

She replied, saying "Well, that's what women are supposed do, isn't it?"

What hope is there when people think in that way?! Where did that come from - did her parents teach her that, did she learn it from experience because everyone around her was having child after child? Did she think there was no other choice? It worries me greatly, because I'm sure she's nowhere near alone in thinking this way!
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Re: How Will You Vote in the Forthcoming UK Elections?

Postby Moon-Crane » Mon Apr 19, 2010 3:52 pm

It's a situation that has developed over a number of years, and one party can't really blame the other as they big two have obviously had long terms in power during that time.

While i'd always want to see a safety net to help people who fall into disasterous circumstances, it's also up to people to help themselves to a greater or lesser degree. Maybe the organisations who give out the help should also nag people to such a degree that they get sick of it and want out as soon as they are able :lol:

I do think there are enough wealthy philanthropists around willing to take care of and able to manage the needs of the truly desperate in their areas. I think there are alternative ways to fund many of the worthy situations we cover through taxation and subsequent quango management of those funds.
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Re: How Will You Vote in the Forthcoming UK Elections?

Postby Mr Blue Sky » Thu Apr 22, 2010 6:42 pm

The second TV debate's on Sky this evening. It'll be very interesting to see how Clegg performs - he'll be under much greater pressure now especially with all the mud the papers are slinging.

Incidentally, I had my hair cut yesterday and to pass the time I picked up the Mirror and the S*n to have a peek at their election coverage. It made me thoroughly ashamed to be honest, we must have the worst so-called 'free' press in the world. I couldn't believe the biased bollocks the papers were spewing about all three party leaders. It's frightening to think people actually buy these rags and are taken in by them.
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Re: How Will You Vote in the Forthcoming UK Elections?

Postby Mr Blue Sky » Fri Apr 23, 2010 12:39 am

Ahh, a vote for Labour in my oh-so-popular above poll.

*checks member list*

Yep, I thought so. Hi there, young Wesley! :wink:
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Re: How Will You Vote in the Forthcoming UK Elections?

Postby Mr Blue Sky » Fri Apr 23, 2010 12:43 am

Anyone watch the debate tonight? Much more even this week but I think Cameron just shaded it. Clegg performed well given the increased scrutiny/expectation and Brown was probably playing his strongest suit with Foreign Affairs so came off much better also.

I still think there's no way to avoid the dreaded hung Parliament scenario which will almost certainly mean Gordon Brown staying on as PM.
"You don't turn the other cheek, you slice it."
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Re: How Will You Vote in the Forthcoming UK Elections?

Postby Karin » Fri Apr 23, 2010 5:48 pm

Speaking of debates, there was a great bit on The Daily Show the other day about the differences between British and American debates. According to them, these were the rules for the Prime Minister Debate:

- each leader will make an opening statement lasting one minute
- each leader will have one minute to respond
- maximum 3 Churchill quotes
- all questions must begin "Simon says"
- no insulting participants' 15th century ancestors
- all cravats must be checked with a designated "cravat checkman"
- participants may only wear white underpants
- no headlocks
- the Queen's corgi must be given equal time
- no Hitler costumes

:lol:
One belongs to New York instantly, one belongs to it as much in five minutes as in five years. - Thomas Wolfe
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