CatNamedRudy wrote:I refuse to acquiesce to the St. James Park issue!
If you did that, such things as the names of stadiums would have to be apostrophe'd! ie Lambeau Field would have to called Lambeau's Field. Or Yankee Stadium would have to be called Yankee's Stadium.
St. James Park is the entire proper name of the park. It is not possessive in any way.
So there!
As for all the American examples you've listed, yeah, they're probably all wrong too!
CatNamedRudy wrote:So, you have Wembley's Stadium?
Somewhere along the way I think I lost the fact that two different parks were being discussed.
So, if I heard someone say St. James's Park (meaning the Newcastle area) it would not sound any different than St. James Park?
CatNamedRudy wrote:But I thought the one at Newcastle was called St. James's Park? Or it WAS called that and then they changed it to St. James?
As for Wembley, the stadium belongs to the place! Thus, Wembley's!
This is fun. But I really should be doing something else since I've leaving on vacation in a two days and I have a boatload of crap to get done before going !
Mr Blue Sky wrote:CatNamedRudy wrote:I refuse to acquiesce to the St. James Park issue!
If you did that, such things as the names of stadiums would have to be apostrophe'd! ie Lambeau Field would have to called Lambeau's Field. Or Yankee Stadium would have to be called Yankee's Stadium.
St. James Park is the entire proper name of the park. It is not possessive in any way.
So there!
Hmm, maybe you have to live over here to understand this particular issue. As M-C said, Exeter's ground is called St. James Park. It's named after him. Newcastle's ground is pronounced St. James's Park. As M-C said, the only way it could be pronounced like that is if it was the Park of St. James, i.e. possessive. Unless we're talking about a ground named after two St. Jameses (plural). Either way, the way that ground is pronounced (which is what I meant by you'd have to live here and hear the pronunciation for yourself) means the current way of spelling St. James's Park, Newcastle is incorrect.
As for all the American examples you've listed, yeah, they're probably all wrong too!
Moon-Crane wrote:Mr Blue Sky wrote:CatNamedRudy wrote:I refuse to acquiesce to the St. James Park issue!
If you did that, such things as the names of stadiums would have to be apostrophe'd! ie Lambeau Field would have to called Lambeau's Field. Or Yankee Stadium would have to be called Yankee's Stadium.
St. James Park is the entire proper name of the park. It is not possessive in any way.
So there!
Hmm, maybe you have to live over here to understand this particular issue. As M-C said, Exeter's ground is called St. James Park. It's named after him. Newcastle's ground is pronounced St. James's Park. As M-C said, the only way it could be pronounced like that is if it was the Park of St. James, i.e. possessive. Unless we're talking about a ground named after two St. Jameses (plural). Either way, the way that ground is pronounced (which is what I meant by you'd have to live here and hear the pronunciation for yourself) means the current way of spelling St. James's Park, Newcastle is incorrect.
As for all the American examples you've listed, yeah, they're probably all wrong too!
Lol, it's rolled on
The Newcastle stadium has always been known as St James's park (written St James' for the most part). There was a period when it was written St James's, but then, for whatever reason, reverted back to St James'.
Just to wind you right up, Cat: We have St James's Park, London; St James' Park, Newcastle; and St James Park, Exeter
I guess it means a name of something can be written in whatever way the creator wishes. Wembley Stadium can be Wembley Stadium, as it's as much a name as Soldier Field or The Empire State Building. You could refer to it as Wembley's stadium if you want to, though, as it is a stadium in the place called Wembley. Somewhere like Dolphin Stadium, Miami, is similar, as it doesn't need to be called Dolphin's Stadium even if it's technically correct to use it - it's just a name.
Companies like Harrods, Selfridges and Woolworths have dropped the apostrophe, while the likes of Jack Daniel's, Sainsbury's or Macy's still have it (maybe because it still belongs to those families in the case of the latter two?).
It's never really bothered me too much, as long as the context of a sentence isn't importantly altered from the meaning being conveyed. If i can understand what's being said, that'll do me Language is fluid so common usage can be a fair means of acceptance.
Enjoy the holiday, Cat
Mr Blue Sky wrote:Moon-Crane wrote:Mr Blue Sky wrote:CatNamedRudy wrote:I refuse to acquiesce to the St. James Park issue!
If you did that, such things as the names of stadiums would have to be apostrophe'd! ie Lambeau Field would have to called Lambeau's Field. Or Yankee Stadium would have to be called Yankee's Stadium.
St. James Park is the entire proper name of the park. It is not possessive in any way.
So there!
Hmm, maybe you have to live over here to understand this particular issue. As M-C said, Exeter's ground is called St. James Park. It's named after him. Newcastle's ground is pronounced St. James's Park. As M-C said, the only way it could be pronounced like that is if it was the Park of St. James, i.e. possessive. Unless we're talking about a ground named after two St. Jameses (plural). Either way, the way that ground is pronounced (which is what I meant by you'd have to live here and hear the pronunciation for yourself) means the current way of spelling St. James's Park, Newcastle is incorrect.
As for all the American examples you've listed, yeah, they're probably all wrong too!
Lol, it's rolled on
The Newcastle stadium has always been known as St James's park (written St James' for the most part). There was a period when it was written St James's, but then, for whatever reason, reverted back to St James'.
Just to wind you right up, Cat: We have St James's Park, London; St James' Park, Newcastle; and St James Park, Exeter
I guess it means a name of something can be written in whatever way the creator wishes. Wembley Stadium can be Wembley Stadium, as it's as much a name as Soldier Field or The Empire State Building. You could refer to it as Wembley's stadium if you want to, though, as it is a stadium in the place called Wembley. Somewhere like Dolphin Stadium, Miami, is similar, as it doesn't need to be called Dolphin's Stadium even if it's technically correct to use it - it's just a name.
Companies like Harrods, Selfridges and Woolworths have dropped the apostrophe, while the likes of Jack Daniel's, Sainsbury's or Macy's still have it (maybe because it still belongs to those families in the case of the latter two?).
It's never really bothered me too much, as long as the context of a sentence isn't importantly altered from the meaning being conveyed. If i can understand what's being said, that'll do me Language is fluid so common usage can be a fair means of acceptance.
Enjoy the holiday, Cat
I don't think Wembley could ever correctly be referred to as 'Wembley's Stadium'. There are examples of the possessive noun being used for places rather than people, but that's never been the case for Wembley as far as I know. It's just named Wembley Stadium.
Does any of this really matter? Well no, it's just interesting.
Moon-Crane wrote::lol: fair enough. I'd never call it that, either, but I wouldn't find it completely stupid if some complete non-footballer referred to it as Wembley's stadium (as in the stadium located at Wembley).
Person A: What's Wembley's Stadium Called?
Person B: Erm... Wembley Stadium.
Person A: Oh
The excitement simply boggles the mind
CatNamedRudy wrote:I would never call it Wembley's Stadium. I only said that because it was following on the possessive thing from the post before it when I told BS that in the case he was making, we should be apostrophe-ing stadium names. Then I used some examples of US stadiums. (Lambeau's Field, Yankee's Stadium, Fenway's Park etc...) The proper names being Lambeau, Yankee and Fenway of course.
It was just a little grammar joke!
Mr Blue Sky wrote:CatNamedRudy wrote:I would never call it Wembley's Stadium. I only said that because it was following on the possessive thing from the post before it when I told BS that in the case he was making, we should be apostrophe-ing stadium names. Then I used some examples of US stadiums. (Lambeau's Field, Yankee's Stadium, Fenway's Park etc...) The proper names being Lambeau, Yankee and Fenway of course.
It was just a little grammar joke!
Hey, this is a serious business, I'll have you know!
It's funny going on the Apostrophe Society forum as you can almost feel people tip-toeing around on there daring not to put a grammatical foot wrong for fear of being pounced on by the rest of the community!
By the way, this is an extremely simple, non-technical issue compared to some of the issues discussed on there. Nominative determinism, anyone?
Nominative determinism,
welshben23 wrote:Mr Blue Sky wrote:CatNamedRudy wrote:I would never call it Wembley's Stadium. I only said that because it was following on the possessive thing from the post before it when I told BS that in the case he was making, we should be apostrophe-ing stadium names. Then I used some examples of US stadiums. (Lambeau's Field, Yankee's Stadium, Fenway's Park etc...) The proper names being Lambeau, Yankee and Fenway of course.
It was just a little grammar joke!
Hey, this is a serious business, I'll have you know!
It's funny going on the Apostrophe Society forum as you can almost feel people tip-toeing around on there daring not to put a grammatical foot wrong for fear of being pounced on by the rest of the community!
By the way, this is an extremely simple, non-technical issue compared to some of the issues discussed on there. Nominative determinism, anyone?
I feel a little bit like that on this thread.
Mr Blue Sky wrote:welshben23 wrote:Mr Blue Sky wrote:CatNamedRudy wrote:I would never call it Wembley's Stadium. I only said that because it was following on the possessive thing from the post before it when I told BS that in the case he was making, we should be apostrophe-ing stadium names. Then I used some examples of US stadiums. (Lambeau's Field, Yankee's Stadium, Fenway's Park etc...) The proper names being Lambeau, Yankee and Fenway of course.
It was just a little grammar joke!
Hey, this is a serious business, I'll have you know!
It's funny going on the Apostrophe Society forum as you can almost feel people tip-toeing around on there daring not to put a grammatical foot wrong for fear of being pounced on by the rest of the community!
By the way, this is an extremely simple, non-technical issue compared to some of the issues discussed on there. Nominative determinism, anyone?
I feel a little bit like that on this thread.
"Last edited by welshben23 on Wed May 28, 2008 8:11 pm; edited 1 time in total"
What did you fuck up, mate?
CatNamedRudy wrote:Somehow I just can't imagine getting into a truly serious riled up discussion about the use of puncuation!
There are far more important things to get riled up about! Like which Indiana Jones movie is the best and is College the best S1 episode of The Sopranos and who is the better pianiast, David or Kelsey!
Moon-Crane wrote:CatNamedRudy wrote:Somehow I just can't imagine getting into a truly serious riled up discussion about the use of puncuation!
There are far more important things to get riled up about! Like which Indiana Jones movie is the best and is College the best S1 episode of The Sopranos and who is the better pianiast, David or Kelsey!
Or the great(?) is David a good kisser/does he have good screen chemistry with Jane debate
Mr Blue Sky wrote:Amazing, they just had a debate on 5Live this morning (with the 'Professor of Applied Linguistics' at Newcastle Uni, no less! ) about whether St James's Park should have the possessive apostrophe applied or not! Amazing coincidence as we were just having that same debate only last week. As I mentioned earlier in the thread, St James' Park is equally as correct as St James's Park. Funnily enough, he said the Newcastle United Football Club site had examples of their own ground with the apostrophe both present and missing - so they're obviously not quite sure what to call it themselves!
The female presenter quipped that the St James's park posessive apostrophe was the only apos-'trophy' they'd had for nigh-on 40 years!
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