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Postby CatNamedRudy » Wed May 28, 2008 3:09 am

:lol:

I'm sure that's the reason! As I type that on my Dell's Computer! :wink:
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Postby Mr Blue Sky » Wed May 28, 2008 3:10 am

CatNamedRudy wrote:I refuse to acquiesce to the St. James Park issue! :D

If you did that, such things as the names of stadiums would have to be apostrophe'd! ie Lambeau Field would have to called Lambeau's Field. Or Yankee Stadium would have to be called Yankee's Stadium.

St. James Park is the entire proper name of the park. It is not possessive in any way.

So there! :)


Hmm, maybe you have to live over here to understand this particular issue. As M-C said, Exeter's ground is called St. James Park. It's named after him. Newcastle's ground is pronounced St. James's Park. As M-C said, the only way it could be pronounced like that is if it was the Park of St. James, i.e. possessive. Unless we're talking about a ground named after two St. Jameses (plural). Either way, the way that ground is pronounced (which is what I meant by you'd have to live here and hear the pronunciation for yourself) means the current way of spelling St. James's Park, Newcastle is incorrect.

As for all the American examples you've listed, yeah, they're probably all wrong too! :lol:
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Postby CatNamedRudy » Wed May 28, 2008 3:19 am

As for all the American examples you've listed, yeah, they're probably all wrong too!


So, you have Wembley's Stadium?

Somewhere along the way I think I lost the fact that two different parks were being discussed.

So, if I heard someone say St. James's Park (meaning the Newcastle area) it would not sound any different than St. James Park?

I'm getting a headache! :D [/quote]
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Postby Mr Blue Sky » Wed May 28, 2008 3:35 am

CatNamedRudy wrote:So, you have Wembley's Stadium?


No, that's named after the place in which it is situated. It's not possessive.

Somewhere along the way I think I lost the fact that two different parks were being discussed.


Hence the confusion! :lol:

So, if I heard someone say St. James's Park (meaning the Newcastle area) it would not sound any different than St. James Park?


No, the two parks do sound different, that's the point. The one in Exeter is pronounced as you're reading it here - St James Park (i.e. named after St. James, rather than belonging to St. James in a literal possessive sense). The one in Newcastle is pronounced in a literal possessive way (i.e. St. James's) unless of course it is a park named after two separate St. Jameses (highly unlikely, but possible). Either way, spelling this ground 'St. James Park' cannot be correct, it either has to be St. James', St. James's, or I suppose St. Jameses or St. Jameses' (thought I'd throw the plural possessive in there too! :lol: )

So there you go! Nice, simple and straightforward, eh? Now, where's that 'head exploding in a microwave' emoticon... :lol:
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Postby CatNamedRudy » Wed May 28, 2008 3:41 am

But I thought the one at Newcastle was called St. James's Park? Or it WAS called that and then they changed it to St. James?

As for Wembley, the stadium belongs to the place! Thus, Wembley's! :lol:

This is fun. But I really should be doing something else since I've leaving on vacation in a two days and I have a boatload of crap to get done before going !
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Postby Mr Blue Sky » Wed May 28, 2008 3:52 am

CatNamedRudy wrote:But I thought the one at Newcastle was called St. James's Park? Or it WAS called that and then they changed it to St. James?


M-C will know more about the history of how it used to be spelt. It has certainly always been pronounced with the possessive 's on the end, so surely it shuld be spelt that way? Unless it's the pronunciation that's wrong. I hadn't considered that!

As for Wembley, the stadium belongs to the place! Thus, Wembley's! :lol:


I know you're just kidding, but thankfully the stadium doesn't belong to Wembley, it's just in Wembley. Can you imagine how ugly Wembley's Stadium would look on signs/tickets etc? Ugh.

This is fun. But I really should be doing something else since I've leaving on vacation in a two days and I have a boatload of crap to get done before going !


Me too. I could have squeezed in another two episodes of The Sopranos in the time it's taken me to get my head around this crap! :lol:
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Postby Moon-Crane » Wed May 28, 2008 10:45 am

Mr Blue Sky wrote:
CatNamedRudy wrote:I refuse to acquiesce to the St. James Park issue! :D

If you did that, such things as the names of stadiums would have to be apostrophe'd! ie Lambeau Field would have to called Lambeau's Field. Or Yankee Stadium would have to be called Yankee's Stadium.

St. James Park is the entire proper name of the park. It is not possessive in any way.

So there! :)


Hmm, maybe you have to live over here to understand this particular issue. As M-C said, Exeter's ground is called St. James Park. It's named after him. Newcastle's ground is pronounced St. James's Park. As M-C said, the only way it could be pronounced like that is if it was the Park of St. James, i.e. possessive. Unless we're talking about a ground named after two St. Jameses (plural). Either way, the way that ground is pronounced (which is what I meant by you'd have to live here and hear the pronunciation for yourself) means the current way of spelling St. James's Park, Newcastle is incorrect.

As for all the American examples you've listed, yeah, they're probably all wrong too! :lol:


Lol, it's rolled on :lol:

The Newcastle stadium has always been known as St James's park (written St James' for the most part). There was a period when it was written St James's, but then, for whatever reason, reverted back to St James'.

Just to wind you right up, Cat: We have St James's Park, London; St James' Park, Newcastle; and St James Park, Exeter :lol:

I guess it means a name of something can be written in whatever way the creator wishes. Wembley Stadium can be Wembley Stadium, as it's as much a name as Soldier Field or The Empire State Building. You could refer to it as Wembley's stadium if you want to, though, as it is a stadium in the place called Wembley. Somewhere like Dolphin Stadium, Miami, is similar, as it doesn't need to be called Dolphin's Stadium even if it's technically correct to use it - it's just a name.

Companies like Harrods, Selfridges and Woolworths have dropped the apostrophe, while the likes of Jack Daniel's, Sainsbury's or Macy's still have it (maybe because it still belongs to those families in the case of the latter two?).

It's never really bothered me too much, as long as the context of a sentence isn't importantly altered from the meaning being conveyed. If i can understand what's being said, that'll do me :lol: Language is fluid so common usage can be a fair means of acceptance.

Enjoy the holiday, Cat :D
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Postby Dorset Girl » Wed May 28, 2008 12:11 pm

My head hurts! :scratch:
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Postby Mr Blue Sky » Wed May 28, 2008 2:47 pm

Moon-Crane wrote:
Mr Blue Sky wrote:
CatNamedRudy wrote:I refuse to acquiesce to the St. James Park issue! :D

If you did that, such things as the names of stadiums would have to be apostrophe'd! ie Lambeau Field would have to called Lambeau's Field. Or Yankee Stadium would have to be called Yankee's Stadium.

St. James Park is the entire proper name of the park. It is not possessive in any way.

So there! :)


Hmm, maybe you have to live over here to understand this particular issue. As M-C said, Exeter's ground is called St. James Park. It's named after him. Newcastle's ground is pronounced St. James's Park. As M-C said, the only way it could be pronounced like that is if it was the Park of St. James, i.e. possessive. Unless we're talking about a ground named after two St. Jameses (plural). Either way, the way that ground is pronounced (which is what I meant by you'd have to live here and hear the pronunciation for yourself) means the current way of spelling St. James's Park, Newcastle is incorrect.

As for all the American examples you've listed, yeah, they're probably all wrong too! :lol:


Lol, it's rolled on :lol:

The Newcastle stadium has always been known as St James's park (written St James' for the most part). There was a period when it was written St James's, but then, for whatever reason, reverted back to St James'.

Just to wind you right up, Cat: We have St James's Park, London; St James' Park, Newcastle; and St James Park, Exeter :lol:

I guess it means a name of something can be written in whatever way the creator wishes. Wembley Stadium can be Wembley Stadium, as it's as much a name as Soldier Field or The Empire State Building. You could refer to it as Wembley's stadium if you want to, though, as it is a stadium in the place called Wembley. Somewhere like Dolphin Stadium, Miami, is similar, as it doesn't need to be called Dolphin's Stadium even if it's technically correct to use it - it's just a name.
Companies like Harrods, Selfridges and Woolworths have dropped the apostrophe, while the likes of Jack Daniel's, Sainsbury's or Macy's still have it (maybe because it still belongs to those families in the case of the latter two?).

It's never really bothered me too much, as long as the context of a sentence isn't importantly altered from the meaning being conveyed. If i can understand what's being said, that'll do me :lol: Language is fluid so common usage can be a fair means of acceptance.

Enjoy the holiday, Cat :D


I don't think Wembley could ever correctly be referred to as 'Wembley's Stadium'. There are examples of the possessive noun being used for places rather than people, but that's never been the case for Wembley as far as I know. It's just named Wembley Stadium.

Does any of this really matter? Well no, it's just interesting. :)
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Postby Moon-Crane » Wed May 28, 2008 3:24 pm

Mr Blue Sky wrote:
Moon-Crane wrote:
Mr Blue Sky wrote:
CatNamedRudy wrote:I refuse to acquiesce to the St. James Park issue! :D

If you did that, such things as the names of stadiums would have to be apostrophe'd! ie Lambeau Field would have to called Lambeau's Field. Or Yankee Stadium would have to be called Yankee's Stadium.

St. James Park is the entire proper name of the park. It is not possessive in any way.

So there! :)


Hmm, maybe you have to live over here to understand this particular issue. As M-C said, Exeter's ground is called St. James Park. It's named after him. Newcastle's ground is pronounced St. James's Park. As M-C said, the only way it could be pronounced like that is if it was the Park of St. James, i.e. possessive. Unless we're talking about a ground named after two St. Jameses (plural). Either way, the way that ground is pronounced (which is what I meant by you'd have to live here and hear the pronunciation for yourself) means the current way of spelling St. James's Park, Newcastle is incorrect.

As for all the American examples you've listed, yeah, they're probably all wrong too! :lol:


Lol, it's rolled on :lol:

The Newcastle stadium has always been known as St James's park (written St James' for the most part). There was a period when it was written St James's, but then, for whatever reason, reverted back to St James'.

Just to wind you right up, Cat: We have St James's Park, London; St James' Park, Newcastle; and St James Park, Exeter :lol:

I guess it means a name of something can be written in whatever way the creator wishes. Wembley Stadium can be Wembley Stadium, as it's as much a name as Soldier Field or The Empire State Building. You could refer to it as Wembley's stadium if you want to, though, as it is a stadium in the place called Wembley. Somewhere like Dolphin Stadium, Miami, is similar, as it doesn't need to be called Dolphin's Stadium even if it's technically correct to use it - it's just a name.
Companies like Harrods, Selfridges and Woolworths have dropped the apostrophe, while the likes of Jack Daniel's, Sainsbury's or Macy's still have it (maybe because it still belongs to those families in the case of the latter two?).

It's never really bothered me too much, as long as the context of a sentence isn't importantly altered from the meaning being conveyed. If i can understand what's being said, that'll do me :lol: Language is fluid so common usage can be a fair means of acceptance.

Enjoy the holiday, Cat :D


I don't think Wembley could ever correctly be referred to as 'Wembley's Stadium'. There are examples of the possessive noun being used for places rather than people, but that's never been the case for Wembley as far as I know. It's just named Wembley Stadium.

Does any of this really matter? Well no, it's just interesting. :)


:lol: fair enough. I'd never call it that, either, but I wouldn't find it completely stupid if some complete non-footballer referred to it as Wembley's stadium (as in the stadium located at Wembley).

Person A: What's Wembley's Stadium Called?
Person B: Erm... Wembley Stadium.
Person A: Oh

The excitement simply boggles the mind :D
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Postby Mr Blue Sky » Wed May 28, 2008 7:47 pm

Moon-Crane wrote::lol: fair enough. I'd never call it that, either, but I wouldn't find it completely stupid if some complete non-footballer referred to it as Wembley's stadium (as in the stadium located at Wembley).

Person A: What's Wembley's Stadium Called?
Person B: Erm... Wembley Stadium.
Person A: Oh

The excitement simply boggles the mind :D


:lol:

That very exchange was going through my head too! Wembley's Stadium - footballing heresy!
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Postby CatNamedRudy » Wed May 28, 2008 7:49 pm

I would never call it Wembley's Stadium. I only said that because it was following on the possessive thing from the post before it when I told BS that in the case he was making, we should be apostrophe-ing stadium names. Then I used some examples of US stadiums. (Lambeau's Field, Yankee's Stadium, Fenway's Park etc...) The proper names being Lambeau, Yankee and Fenway of course.

It was just a little grammar joke! :D
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Postby Mr Blue Sky » Wed May 28, 2008 8:05 pm

CatNamedRudy wrote:I would never call it Wembley's Stadium. I only said that because it was following on the possessive thing from the post before it when I told BS that in the case he was making, we should be apostrophe-ing stadium names. Then I used some examples of US stadiums. (Lambeau's Field, Yankee's Stadium, Fenway's Park etc...) The proper names being Lambeau, Yankee and Fenway of course.

It was just a little grammar joke! :D


Hey, this is a serious business, I'll have you know! :D

It's funny going on the Apostrophe Society forum as you can almost feel people tip-toeing around on there daring not to put a grammatical foot wrong for fear of being pounced on by the rest of the community! :lol:

By the way, this is an extremely simple, non-technical issue compared to some of the issues discussed on there. Nominative determinism, anyone? :wink:
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Postby welshben23 » Wed May 28, 2008 8:08 pm

Mr Blue Sky wrote:
CatNamedRudy wrote:I would never call it Wembley's Stadium. I only said that because it was following on the possessive thing from the post before it when I told BS that in the case he was making, we should be apostrophe-ing stadium names. Then I used some examples of US stadiums. (Lambeau's Field, Yankee's Stadium, Fenway's Park etc...) The proper names being Lambeau, Yankee and Fenway of course.

It was just a little grammar joke! :D


Hey, this is a serious business, I'll have you know! :D

It's funny going on the Apostrophe Society forum as you can almost feel people tip-toeing around on there daring not to put a grammatical foot wrong for fear of being pounced on by the rest of the community! :lol:

By the way, this is an extremely simple, non-technical issue compared to some of the issues discussed on there. Nominative determinism, anyone? :wink:


I feel a little bit like that on this thread. :lol: :wink:
Last edited by welshben23 on Wed May 28, 2008 8:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby CatNamedRudy » Wed May 28, 2008 8:10 pm

Nominative determinism,


Say what now?

Somehow I just can't imagine getting into a truly serious riled up discussion about the use of puncuation!

There are far more important things to get riled up about! Like which Indiana Jones movie is the best and is College the best S1 episode of The Sopranos and who is the better pianiast, David or Kelsey! :D
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Postby Mr Blue Sky » Wed May 28, 2008 8:21 pm

welshben23 wrote:
Mr Blue Sky wrote:
CatNamedRudy wrote:I would never call it Wembley's Stadium. I only said that because it was following on the possessive thing from the post before it when I told BS that in the case he was making, we should be apostrophe-ing stadium names. Then I used some examples of US stadiums. (Lambeau's Field, Yankee's Stadium, Fenway's Park etc...) The proper names being Lambeau, Yankee and Fenway of course.

It was just a little grammar joke! :D


Hey, this is a serious business, I'll have you know! :D

It's funny going on the Apostrophe Society forum as you can almost feel people tip-toeing around on there daring not to put a grammatical foot wrong for fear of being pounced on by the rest of the community! :lol:

By the way, this is an extremely simple, non-technical issue compared to some of the issues discussed on there. Nominative determinism, anyone? :wink:


I feel a little bit like that on this thread. :lol: :wink:


"Last edited by welshben23 on Wed May 28, 2008 8:11 pm; edited 1 time in total"

:lol: What did you fuck up, mate?
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Postby welshben23 » Wed May 28, 2008 9:15 pm

Mr Blue Sky wrote:
welshben23 wrote:
Mr Blue Sky wrote:
CatNamedRudy wrote:I would never call it Wembley's Stadium. I only said that because it was following on the possessive thing from the post before it when I told BS that in the case he was making, we should be apostrophe-ing stadium names. Then I used some examples of US stadiums. (Lambeau's Field, Yankee's Stadium, Fenway's Park etc...) The proper names being Lambeau, Yankee and Fenway of course.

It was just a little grammar joke! :D


Hey, this is a serious business, I'll have you know! :D

It's funny going on the Apostrophe Society forum as you can almost feel people tip-toeing around on there daring not to put a grammatical foot wrong for fear of being pounced on by the rest of the community! :lol:

By the way, this is an extremely simple, non-technical issue compared to some of the issues discussed on there. Nominative determinism, anyone? :wink:


I feel a little bit like that on this thread. :lol: :wink:


"Last edited by welshben23 on Wed May 28, 2008 8:11 pm; edited 1 time in total"

:lol: What did you fuck up, mate?


:lol: Nothing grammatical, I emboldened (sp) too much of your post. :D
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Postby Mr Blue Sky » Wed May 28, 2008 9:18 pm

welshben23 wrote:(sp)


Hehe, nice insurance policy! :lol:
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Postby Moon-Crane » Thu May 29, 2008 10:01 am

CatNamedRudy wrote:Somehow I just can't imagine getting into a truly serious riled up discussion about the use of puncuation!

There are far more important things to get riled up about! Like which Indiana Jones movie is the best and is College the best S1 episode of The Sopranos and who is the better pianiast, David or Kelsey! :D


:lol: Or the great(?) is David a good kisser/does he have good screen chemistry with Jane debate ;)
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Postby CatNamedRudy » Thu May 29, 2008 10:05 am

Moon-Crane wrote:
CatNamedRudy wrote:Somehow I just can't imagine getting into a truly serious riled up discussion about the use of puncuation!

There are far more important things to get riled up about! Like which Indiana Jones movie is the best and is College the best S1 episode of The Sopranos and who is the better pianiast, David or Kelsey! :D


:lol: Or the great(?) is David a good kisser/does he have good screen chemistry with Jane debate ;)


:lol:
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Postby Mr Blue Sky » Wed Jun 04, 2008 8:20 am

Amazing, they just had a debate on 5Live this morning (with the 'Professor of Applied Linguistics' at Newcastle Uni, no less! :lol: ) about whether St James's Park should have the possessive apostrophe applied or not! Amazing coincidence as we were just having that same debate only last week. As I mentioned earlier in the thread, St James' Park is equally as correct as St James's Park. Funnily enough, he said the Newcastle United Football Club site had examples of their own ground with the apostrophe both present and missing - so they're obviously not quite sure what to call it themselves! :lol:

The female presenter quipped that the St James's park posessive apostrophe was the only apos-'trophy' they'd had for nigh-on 40 years! :D
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Postby Moon-Crane » Wed Jun 04, 2008 12:14 pm

Mr Blue Sky wrote:Amazing, they just had a debate on 5Live this morning (with the 'Professor of Applied Linguistics' at Newcastle Uni, no less! :lol: ) about whether St James's Park should have the possessive apostrophe applied or not! Amazing coincidence as we were just having that same debate only last week. As I mentioned earlier in the thread, St James' Park is equally as correct as St James's Park. Funnily enough, he said the Newcastle United Football Club site had examples of their own ground with the apostrophe both present and missing - so they're obviously not quite sure what to call it themselves! :lol:

The female presenter quipped that the St James's park posessive apostrophe was the only apos-'trophy' they'd had for nigh-on 40 years! :D


We lead the way on high-falutin' debate :lol:
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Postby Dorset Girl » Sun Jun 08, 2008 1:46 pm

Right, here's the one from ages and ages ago, that I've finally got around to transferring from my phone! The picture quality is beyond crap, my excuse is that it was taken in a very dark corner of the pub, with no flash, so that I didn't attract attention. :lol:

Hopefully you can read it easily enough to see that it says 'Daisy Chain Childrens Trust'. As 'Children' is already a plural, then the 's' must be possessive, so should have an apostrophe. *crosses fingers hoping that's correct!*

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Postby Dorset Girl » Sun Jun 08, 2008 1:47 pm

This one's from a car boot sale yesterday. It's handwritten, so I'm not sure whether or not it meets your strict rules, BS. ;) Superfluous apostrophe or not, the fact that it's talking about 'smelly rubbers' made me look twice anyway. :shock:

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Postby Dorset Girl » Mon Jun 09, 2008 1:05 pm

Oi, Mr BS! I go to all the effort of d/l'ing these pics from my phone and you haven't awarded me my points yet! :)
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