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Is America The Greatest Nation In The History Of The Planet?

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Is America the greatest nation in the history of the planet?

Yes
15
29%
No
37
71%
 
Total votes : 52

Postby Dorset Girl » Fri Nov 02, 2007 1:09 pm

JT the Rightwing American wrote:
Dorset Girl wrote:

EDIT: The problem is, which search terms to use?! Because of the nature of what I'm looking for, the word 'academics' doesn't work because that appears in most journal articles anyway. The word 'education' isn't helping either, because so does that!


I used "studies of political leanings in academia". But i'm searching the net in general and not particular databases.


Have you found anything relevant? There's loads of stuff about voting turnout, but not Party preference. The nearest I've got is an article which says: "Although social class and education are associated with turnout in the USA, no relationship has been reported in the UK, and voting seems to have been perceived as a citizen duty." If that is true, then we need to be careful about generalising for both the USA and the UK, then, as the picture could be different in both countries.
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Postby JT the Rightwing American » Fri Nov 02, 2007 1:28 pm

Dorset Girl wrote:
JT the Rightwing American wrote:
Dorset Girl wrote:

EDIT: The problem is, which search terms to use?! Because of the nature of what I'm looking for, the word 'academics' doesn't work because that appears in most journal articles anyway. The word 'education' isn't helping either, because so does that!


I used "studies of political leanings in academia". But i'm searching the net in general and not particular databases.


Have you found anything relevant? There's loads of stuff about voting turnout, but not Party preference. The nearest I've got is an article which says: "Although social class and education are associated with turnout in the USA, no relationship has been reported in the UK, and voting seems to have been perceived as a citizen duty." If that is true, then we need to be careful about generalising for both the USA and the UK, then, as the picture could be different in both countries.


I did a quick query and found the link I put a few posts up.
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Postby JT the Rightwing American » Fri Nov 02, 2007 1:31 pm

Dorset Girl wrote:
JT the Rightwing American wrote:
Dorset Girl wrote:

EDIT: The problem is, which search terms to use?! Because of the nature of what I'm looking for, the word 'academics' doesn't work because that appears in most journal articles anyway. The word 'education' isn't helping either, because so does that!


I used "studies of political leanings in academia". But i'm searching the net in general and not particular databases.


Have you found anything relevant? There's loads of stuff about voting turnout, but not Party preference. The nearest I've got is an article which says: "Although social class and education are associated with turnout in the USA, no relationship has been reported in the UK, and voting seems to have been perceived as a citizen duty." If that is true, then we need to be careful about generalising for both the USA and the UK, then, as the picture could be different in both countries.


Yes, things are different in a lot of ways between the USA and UK. I'm specifically talking about the US, but I bet it is similar - maybe not as pronouned - in the UK.
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Postby Dorset Girl » Fri Nov 02, 2007 1:42 pm

Okay, I shamelessly stole your search terms, JT, and used them in the academic journals. It came up with some articles which did indeed indicate that there is a correlation between the discipline in which an academic works and political leanings.

This sums it up: "Democrats had a majority in Business and Public Administration, Education, Fine Arts, Law, Liberal Arts, Physical Education, Pharmacy, and Chemistry. Republicans had a majority in the Colleges of Agriculture, Engineering, Home Economics, Nursing, and Mining. He further raised the question as to whether or not most liberal arts faculties are more heavily Democratic than other college faculties in that they have developed a greater social consciousness within liberal arts departments." (referring to an article by Conrad Joyner, published in 1963, based on American Universities).

However, then I repeated the search for articles published from 1997 onwards, and came up with nothing! :? So I have no idea if these patterns are still the same, or if there have been similar studies carried out in the UK?!
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Postby Dorset Girl » Fri Nov 02, 2007 1:46 pm

Hehe, and I think this could be relevant to us too, albeit in a different way :lol:

"Emory University psychologist Drew Westen put self-identified Democratic and Republican partisans in brain scanners and asked them to evaluate negative information about various candidates. Both groups were quick to spot inconsistency and hypocrisy -- but only in candidates they opposed."


From http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/co ... 42_pf.html


EDIT: JT, you'll find this quite interesting too I think, it's much more recent than the other stuff I found. Sorry I keep adding 'edits' but as I come across articles, I don't want to keep adding new posts!
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Postby Dorset Girl » Fri Nov 02, 2007 2:45 pm

*off-topic warning*...

After what I said about Prince Philip earlier, I felt I had to go and look some of his quotes up! This pagehas loads of them. If you are interested, as well as the main list at the top, there are lots more included in the posts that follow on underneath.

Here's my favourite:

(2002 - To a school band in Cairns, Australia) "You were playing your instruments weren't you?, or do you have tape recorders under your seats?.."

And I wouldn't mind betting he was deadly serious! :lol:
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Postby Mr Blue Sky » Fri Nov 02, 2007 2:57 pm

Dorset Girl wrote:*off-topic warning*...

After what I said about Prince Philip earlier, I felt I had to go and look some of his quotes up! This pagehas loads of them. If you are interested, as well as the main list at the top, there are lots more included in the posts that follow on underneath.

Here's my favourite:

(2002 - To a school band in Cairns, Australia) "You were playing your instruments weren't you?, or do you have tape recorders under your seats?.."

And I wouldn't mind betting he was deadly serious! :lol:


Just have to respond to this before JT's points - I love Phil the Greek! My favourite was certainly when he saw some dodgy wiring in a new building he was touring and said "I bet that was done by an Indian!" :lol: His blatant racism was funny enough but the spin was masterful... "Oh, he meant cowboy...". Class. :D
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Postby Dorset Girl » Fri Nov 02, 2007 2:58 pm

Beer Necessity wrote:Just have to respond to this before JT's points - I love Phil the Greek! My favourite was certainly when he saw some dodgy wiring in a new building he was touring and said "I bet that was done by an Indian!" :lol: His blatant racism was funny enough but the spin was masterful... "Oh, he meant cowboy...". Class. :D


Well, after my last post, I kept reading, and this is now my new favourite:

(2002 - Commenting during the Jubilee tour) "If you travel as much as we do you appreciate how much more comfortable aircraft have become. Unless you travel in something called economy class, which sounds ghastly.."
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Postby Mr Blue Sky » Fri Nov 02, 2007 5:55 pm

Dorset Girl wrote:
Beer Necessity wrote:Just have to respond to this before JT's points - I love Phil the Greek! My favourite was certainly when he saw some dodgy wiring in a new building he was touring and said "I bet that was done by an Indian!" :lol: His blatant racism was funny enough but the spin was masterful... "Oh, he meant cowboy...". Class. :D


Well, after my last post, I kept reading, and this is now my new favourite:

(2002 - Commenting during the Jubilee tour) "If you travel as much as we do you appreciate how much more comfortable aircraft have become. Unless you travel in something called economy class, which sounds ghastly.."


:lol: Sounds like Niles!
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Postby Dorset Girl » Fri Nov 02, 2007 5:59 pm

Beer Necessity wrote:
Dorset Girl wrote:Well, after my last post, I kept reading, and this is now my new favourite:

(2002 - Commenting during the Jubilee tour) "If you travel as much as we do you appreciate how much more comfortable aircraft have become. Unless you travel in something called economy class, which sounds ghastly.."


:lol: Sounds like Niles!


Nooo! What are you trying to do? Don't taint DHP's sexiness by comparing him to Prince Philip! :lol: That's just wrong!
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Postby Moon-Crane » Fri Nov 02, 2007 6:43 pm

:lol: That's funny

I guess everyone also remembers when Prince Philip told some exchange students, in china, not to stay too long otherwise they might get slitty eyes.... bless him :D I bet Pete Docherty would love to get hold of whatever Phil's on :lol:
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Postby Dorset Girl » Fri Nov 02, 2007 7:03 pm

Moon-Crane wrote::lol: That's funny

I guess everyone also remembers when Prince Philip told some exchange students, in china, not to stay too long otherwise they might get slitty eyes.... bless him :D


Yes, I reckon that's the most well-known one! Can you imagine the dread that the Queen must feel before social occasions?! :lol:
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Postby Moon-Crane » Fri Nov 02, 2007 7:09 pm

Dorset Girl wrote:Yes, I reckon that's the most well-known one!


It could be. Or maybe the one where he asked Aborigines if they still chucked spears at each other - that's a pretty famous one.
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Postby JT the Rightwing American » Sat Nov 03, 2007 1:27 pm

Dorset Girl wrote:Okay, I shamelessly stole your search terms, JT, and used them in the academic journals. It came up with some articles which did indeed indicate that there is a correlation between the discipline in which an academic works and political leanings.

This sums it up: "Democrats had a majority in Business and Public Administration, Education, Fine Arts, Law, Liberal Arts, Physical Education, Pharmacy, and Chemistry. Republicans had a majority in the Colleges of Agriculture, Engineering, Home Economics, Nursing, and Mining. He further raised the question as to whether or not most liberal arts faculties are more heavily Democratic than other college faculties in that they have developed a greater social consciousness within liberal arts departments." (referring to an article by Conrad Joyner, published in 1963, based on American Universities).

However, then I repeated the search for articles published from 1997 onwards, and came up with nothing! :? So I have no idea if these patterns are still the same, or if there have been similar studies carried out in the UK?!


Dorset Girl, did you see the url I posted a page back? It was a link to a NY Times article. It was the first query result I made. I didn't look any further.
http://www.nytimes.com/2004/11/18/educa ... culty.html
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Postby JT the Rightwing American » Sat Nov 03, 2007 1:32 pm

Dorset Girl wrote:Hehe, and I think this could be relevant to us too, albeit in a different way :lol:

"Emory University psychologist Drew Westen put self-identified Democratic and Republican partisans in brain scanners and asked them to evaluate negative information about various candidates. Both groups were quick to spot inconsistency and hypocrisy -- but only in candidates they opposed."


From http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/co ... 42_pf.html


EDIT: JT, you'll find this quite interesting too I think, it's much more recent than the other stuff I found. Sorry I keep adding 'edits' but as I come across articles, I don't want to keep adding new posts!


From your linked article:

"If a student doesn't subscribe to the campus orthodoxy, the likely effect is not to convert her but to alienate her from intellectual life. Others learn only about a narrow range of ideas."

This is true not only of students, but of profs and researchers as well. Groupthink and more.... This leads to what i've been talking about in regards to the available literature on American history.
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Postby JT the Rightwing American » Sat Nov 03, 2007 1:57 pm

Moon-Crane wrote:
I've always found it difficult to comprehend how (a) if we're so bad in the world why lorry loads of both legal and illegal immigrants head for our shores (US/UK), above all others, when looking for better prospects, and (b) why people continue to live in our countries when they continuously complain about every way of life we live by.



This is really the 'acid test' isn't it?
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Postby Dorset Girl » Sat Nov 03, 2007 3:40 pm

JT the Rightwing American wrote:From your linked article:

"If a student doesn't subscribe to the campus orthodoxy, the likely effect is not to convert her but to alienate her from intellectual life. Others learn only about a narrow range of ideas."

This is true not only of students, but of profs and researchers as well. Groupthink and more.... This leads to what i've been talking about in regards to the available literature on American history.


Yes, I thought it supported some of the points you've made, that's why I linked to it. I did say I've got an open mind about this, and I meant it, I'm not going to disagree with you just for the sake of it!
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Postby JT the Rightwing American » Sun Nov 04, 2007 10:46 am

Dorset Girl wrote:
JT the Rightwing American wrote:From your linked article:

"If a student doesn't subscribe to the campus orthodoxy, the likely effect is not to convert her but to alienate her from intellectual life. Others learn only about a narrow range of ideas."

This is true not only of students, but of profs and researchers as well. Groupthink and more.... This leads to what i've been talking about in regards to the available literature on American history.


Yes, I thought it supported some of the points you've made, that's why I linked to it. I did say I've got an open mind about this, and I meant it, I'm not going to disagree with you just for the sake of it!


But that would be more fun, wouldn't it? :wink:
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Postby Dorset Girl » Sun Nov 04, 2007 12:12 pm

JT the Rightwing American wrote:
Dorset Girl wrote:Yes, I thought it supported some of the points you've made, that's why I linked to it. I did say I've got an open mind about this, and I meant it, I'm not going to disagree with you just for the sake of it!


But that would be more fun, wouldn't it? :wink:


...but kind of pointless! :lol: Anyway, some kind of weird 'ethical' thing I have wouldn't let me do that. Like that article - I could have just ignored it because it supported some of what you're saying, but my conscience wouldn't let me. :lol:
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Postby Rodge » Fri Nov 09, 2007 7:44 pm

Hey, hey - :lol: Nice to see JT on his usual great 'form'. I'm sure we've had this discussion in the past; and just to reiterate my answer to the question that started this thread - "Hell no - Jeez, what sort of Dumb-ass question is that anyway"!!!!! :wink:
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Postby Mr Blue Sky » Fri Nov 09, 2007 7:48 pm

Rodge wrote:Hey, hey - :lol: Nice to see JT on his usual great 'form'. I'm sure we've had this discussion in the past; and just to reiterate my answer to the question that started this thread - "Hell no - Jeez, what sort of Dumb-ass question is that anyway"!!!!! :wink:


Hey hey, it's Rodger the dodger! :lol: Nice to see you again mate! My interest in this debate has flagged a little I must admit...
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Postby JT » Sat Nov 10, 2007 1:19 pm

Beer Necessity wrote:
Rodge wrote:Hey, hey - :lol: Nice to see JT on his usual great 'form'. I'm sure we've had this discussion in the past; and just to reiterate my answer to the question that started this thread - "Hell no - Jeez, what sort of Dumb-ass question is that anyway"!!!!! :wink:


Hey hey, it's Rodger the dodger! :lol: Nice to see you again mate! My interest in this debate has flagged a little I must admit...


Mine too. I sense the reluctance in everyone to get and stay involved. I'm afraid i've pissed people off. Back to other non-controversial things....
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Postby Moon-Crane » Sat Nov 10, 2007 1:38 pm

JT wrote:Mine too. I sense the reluctance in everyone to get and stay involved. I'm afraid i've pissed people off. Back to other non-controversial things....


You made some points. Other people made some points. It's not reluctance - rather i don't just talk just to hear the sound of my own voice. You're regarding yourself very highly indeed if you think your own points just automatically piss people off and are too controversial to touch. :lol:

I'm pretty sure i made some posts agreeing with you, so i'm not sure how i would be pissed off at that? Other points/suggestions were ignored, so i assume weren't interesting enough - which is fair fucks.

Make an interesting point or open up an avenue of discussion and i'll be happy to respond.
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Postby Dorset Girl » Sat Nov 10, 2007 1:39 pm

Moon-Crane wrote:Make an interesting point or open up an avenue of discussion and i'll be happy to respond.


Me too. :)
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Postby Mr Blue Sky » Sat Nov 10, 2007 1:49 pm

Moon-Crane wrote:
JT wrote:Mine too. I sense the reluctance in everyone to get and stay involved. I'm afraid i've pissed people off. Back to other non-controversial things....


You made some points. Other people made some points. It's not reluctance - rather i don't just talk just to hear the sound of my own voice. You're regarding yourself very highly indeed if you think your own points just automatically piss people off and are too controversial to touch. :lol:

I'm pretty sure i made some posts agreeing with you, so i'm not sure how i would be pissed off at that? Other points/suggestions were ignored, so i assume weren't interesting enough - which is fair fucks.

Make an interesting point or open up an avenue of discussion and i'll be happy to respond.


That struck me too. We're discussing unprovables here so we pretty much have to accept each other's POV. Nothing to do with the subject matter being too hot to handle!
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