Mr Blue Sky wrote: How ironic then, that her 17 year old unmarried daughter has just announced she's pregnant! As one commentator said today, I bet McCain didn't know that when he appointed Sarah Palin!
CatNamedRudy wrote:I'm not happy about any my choices really. If I didn't think it would result in McCain winning, I'd write in Hillary!
But I can't bear the thought of John McCain-More of the Same for another 4 years so I'll throw my vote to Barack and pray it works out!
The only positive I can see in McCain actually winning is that it will allow Hillary to run in 2012 and all those who voted for Obama in the primary this time around because he was a Traveling Salvation Show who spoke well will realize they should have voted for her in the first place and then she'll win!
McCain is using Hillary in one of his ads. It's her saying that she brings a lifetime of experience to the campaign and Senator McCain brings a lifetime of experience and Senator Obama brings a nice speech he made in 2002. Sad to say, that it's true.
I'm worried about the next four years no matter who wins this election.
JT wrote:Mr Blue Sky wrote: How ironic then, that her 17 year old unmarried daughter has just announced she's pregnant! As one commentator said today, I bet McCain didn't know that when he appointed Sarah Palin!
Bet he did. I don't know where the sense of irony comes from. Even though conservatives believe in marriage before sex, etc. one of her 5 children that she didn't abort does the naughty and gets pregnant? I'm now supposed to scream 'hypocrite' and point my finger at the right-wing mom?
JT wrote:CatNamedRudy wrote:I'm not happy about any my choices really. If I didn't think it would result in McCain winning, I'd write in Hillary!
But I can't bear the thought of John McCain-More of the Same for another 4 years so I'll throw my vote to Barack and pray it works out!
The only positive I can see in McCain actually winning is that it will allow Hillary to run in 2012 and all those who voted for Obama in the primary this time around because he was a Traveling Salvation Show who spoke well will realize they should have voted for her in the first place and then she'll win!
McCain is using Hillary in one of his ads. It's her saying that she brings a lifetime of experience to the campaign and Senator McCain brings a lifetime of experience and Senator Obama brings a nice speech he made in 2002. Sad to say, that it's true.
I'm worried about the next four years no matter who wins this election.
I'm still a little puzzled about your default choice, cat. Its been so long I forgot. Is it the war stance that swings it for you? Or are you generally that liberal? McCain ain't that un-liberal. McCain seems to be the most centrist of any of the four ticket mates by a damn sight. Obamarrama is the most liberal of all U.S senators and Biden is the 3rd most liberal. Once again, that is by definition extreme.
JT wrote:CatNamedRudy wrote:I'm not happy about any my choices really. If I didn't think it would result in McCain winning, I'd write in Hillary!
But I can't bear the thought of John McCain-More of the Same for another 4 years so I'll throw my vote to Barack and pray it works out!
The only positive I can see in McCain actually winning is that it will allow Hillary to run in 2012 and all those who voted for Obama in the primary this time around because he was a Traveling Salvation Show who spoke well will realize they should have voted for her in the first place and then she'll win!
McCain is using Hillary in one of his ads. It's her saying that she brings a lifetime of experience to the campaign and Senator McCain brings a lifetime of experience and Senator Obama brings a nice speech he made in 2002. Sad to say, that it's true.
I'm worried about the next four years no matter who wins this election.
I'm still a little puzzled about your default choice, cat. Its been so long I forgot. Is it the war stance that swings it for you? Or are you generally that liberal? McCain ain't that un-liberal. McCain seems to be the most centrist of any of the four ticket mates by a damn sight. Obamarrama is the most liberal of all U.S senators and Biden is the 3rd most liberal. Once again, that is by definition extreme.
CatNamedRudy wrote:My stance is that this country is not in better shape than it was 8 years ago and that is in large part due to George W. Bush and Company. John McCain is more of the same.
And yes MC, Hillary voted to authorize military force in Iraq. So did everybody in congress except Russ Feingold. That doesn't mean I supported it. I don't support everything my party does nor do I support or agree with everything a particular candidate does even if I like that candidate. Hillary isn't an advocate of same sex marriage either but I still support her because that's just one of many things to be dealt with.
I am against this stupid war and I was from the very beginning. It's pointless and it was conducted on false information and downright lies. I don't think McCain will do much to get us the hell out of it and I think Obama will be better at smoothing over our relationships with other countries.
Moon-Crane wrote:CatNamedRudy wrote:My stance is that this country is not in better shape than it was 8 years ago and that is in large part due to George W. Bush and Company. John McCain is more of the same.
And yes MC, Hillary voted to authorize military force in Iraq. So did everybody in congress except Russ Feingold. That doesn't mean I supported it. I don't support everything my party does nor do I support or agree with everything a particular candidate does even if I like that candidate. Hillary isn't an advocate of same sex marriage either but I still support her because that's just one of many things to be dealt with.
I am against this stupid war and I was from the very beginning. It's pointless and it was conducted on false information and downright lies. I don't think McCain will do much to get us the hell out of it and I think Obama will be better at smoothing over our relationships with other countries.
I actually agree with your position. JT just mentioned the war thing, so all i was trying to say was that the war was unlikely to be the main reason for you to support the Democrats. It was likely based on a combination of things - much like i'd hope his Republican support would be.
If it had been your primary concern then you'd unlikely be able to support Hillary - or many mainstream politicians really. Being able to back Clinton while disagreeing with some of her beliefs should show it wasn't a deciding factor. It's neither an attack on her or in any way trying to show that your support can't marry because of her stance on some issues.
There can't be a politician out there that any serious supporter could agrees with 100% on all issues. Never going to happen with any sensible independent thinking person.
I guess it easily shows that you're not one of these fabled liberal extremists
Moon-Crane wrote:i think the party is damaged goods in the eyes of the World at the moment... care what you will about that - I know the world view will be the least concern for you, Stateside.
CatNamedRudy wrote:JT wrote:CatNamedRudy wrote:I'm not happy about any my choices really. If I didn't think it would result in McCain winning, I'd write in Hillary!
But I can't bear the thought of John McCain-More of the Same for another 4 years so I'll throw my vote to Barack and pray it works out!
The only positive I can see in McCain actually winning is that it will allow Hillary to run in 2012 and all those who voted for Obama in the primary this time around because he was a Traveling Salvation Show who spoke well will realize they should have voted for her in the first place and then she'll win!
McCain is using Hillary in one of his ads. It's her saying that she brings a lifetime of experience to the campaign and Senator McCain brings a lifetime of experience and Senator Obama brings a nice speech he made in 2002. Sad to say, that it's true.
I'm worried about the next four years no matter who wins this election.
I'm still a little puzzled about your default choice, cat. Its been so long I forgot. Is it the war stance that swings it for you? Or are you generally that liberal? McCain ain't that un-liberal. McCain seems to be the most centrist of any of the four ticket mates by a damn sight. Obamarrama is the most liberal of all U.S senators and Biden is the 3rd most liberal. Once again, that is by definition extreme.
My stance is that this country is not in better shape than it was 8 years ago and that is in large part due to George W. Bush and Company. John McCain is more of the same.
And yes MC, Hillary voted to authorize military force in Iraq. So did everybody in congress except Russ Feingold. That doesn't mean I supported it. I don't support everything my party does nor do I support or agree with everything a particular candidate does even if I like that candidate. Hillary isn't an advocate of same sex marriage either but I still support her because that's just one of many things to be dealt with.
I am against this stupid war and I was from the very beginning. It's pointless and it was conducted on false information and downright lies. I don't think McCain will do much to get us the hell out of it and I think Obama will be better at smoothing over our relationships with other countries.
CatNamedRudy wrote:WMD, Iraq being a direct threat to the US. Neither of those were true and Colin Powell KNEW it when he was presenting the BS to the UN.
CatNamedRudy wrote:The economy is worse than it was.
CatNamedRudy wrote: We have a HUGE deficit that we didn't have before.
CatNamedRudy wrote:We are NOT more secure no matter how the right tries to spin it.
CatNamedRudy wrote:The rest of the world leaders (not just France) don't trust the US govt. and think we're arrogant fucks
CatNamedRudy wrote:And yes, it IS Bush's fault. The buck stops with him and good or bad, he takes the credit and he takes the blame. That's the way it is.
CatNamedRudy wrote:And yes, I think Obama will do a much better job at repairing our reputation around the world. And not just in France.
CatNamedRudy wrote:Whoa, whoa, whoa...back the truck up!
I didn't say George W. Bush was responsible for every single bad thing that has happened since he took office.
I said he was responsible for governmental things such as the war, the crappy state of our economy and the crappy relationship with have with other countries around the world.
CatNamedRudy wrote:Say what you want about Bill Clinton but he took responsibility when he screwed up. (not in his personal life mind you and that was stupid of him) When Mogadishu went terribly, terribly wrong, he came out and said he screwed up. He admitted mistakes and that's one of the things that pisses me off more than anything about Bush. He NEVER admits when he screws up. Take some responsibility for once in your life man! Own up to your screw ups!
CatNamedRudy wrote:And yes, I absolutely believe that Colin Powell KNEW he was presenting false information to the UN. I believe it 100%.
CatNamedRudy wrote:And I don't feel safer and I don't think this country is safer than it was 8 years ago. People on planes are more alert. That has nothing to do with George Bush. It has to do with 9/11. People are just more aware. Not due to any policies.
CatNamedRudy wrote:You think it's a good thing that our allies hate us? Wow. That's kind of scary. And incredibly elitist of you!
Moon-Crane wrote:Hey JT, you got me thinking when you mentioned US talk radio on another thread.
I was wondering what the current situation is regarding the backing of McCain, with his more 'liberal' perception, and how he managed to get the Republican vote, while seemingly pretty unpopular on the talk radio circuit?
Do you think the biggest (loudest?) talk show hosts are having less influence on their listeners? Have they ever had the alleged influence attributed to them?
JT wrote:CatNamedRudy wrote:Whoa, whoa, whoa...back the truck up!
I didn't say George W. Bush was responsible for every single bad thing that has happened since he took office.
I said he was responsible for governmental things such as the war, the crappy state of our economy and the crappy relationship with have with other countries around the world.
But thats what i'm talking about. 'The crappy state of our economy'? He's responsible for that? Can you be even a little more specific? Can you even point to specific policy choices that have made the economy 'crappy'? And was it Clinton's fault that we had the .com burst leading to the 2001 recession? Don't you think that the 'buck stops with him' is awfully simplistic? Do you understand the true extent of governmental power of the presidency?
JT wrote:CatNamedRudy wrote:You think it's a good thing that our allies hate us? Wow. That's kind of scary. And incredibly elitist of you!
If the choice is between 1. Making western Europe (and yes, France too) happy by behaving as they would see fit and 2. Making the unfortunate but necessary decision to behave as our values dictate while sacrificing some international good-will, I would easily make the decision in favor of the latter. Some compromise for the sake of international good-will is understandable. But the realization that we have differing world-views and are inescapably moving even farther apart is a reality that none of the protesting and nose-thumbing on either side can assuage.
CatNamedRudy wrote:Well, I guess I'm alone in thinking that having a leader that other leaders respect and want to deal with is a good thing. Nevermind the fact that it's easier to get things done when you have other people that are willing to help you and work with you. Nevermind that if you're an arrogant ass other people don't want to listen to you or lend you hand when you need it.
I'd rather the US not have to go at things alone. It's rather taxing on our system and when you're talking about using military force, it's rather taxing on our troops.
Whoa. I'm not sure how you're alone there? I certainly said that it's better to do be on amicable terms with as many countries as possible, as best as you can be. I didn't hear JT dispute that either.
CatNamedRudy wrote:
JT stated that he thinks Bush pissing off our allies is a good thing. Doesn't sound to me like he thinks it's better to be on amicable terms with them.
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