New Generation Games Consoles

[DHP]

In our common room, there's a beaten up old Nintendo 64, with Mariokart and Tomorrow Never Dies constantly being played. I thought they both sucked. With regards to graphics, they aren't anywhere near as impressive as the X-Box of PS2. Given the N64 is old, but I've found this with any Nintendo I've played.

A common misconception that graphics = gameplay. Not true. Sure, if you want things pretty, you keep buying the newer consoles and the newer games. But the gameplay element has been nailed by Nintendo time and again, while Sony and Microsoft have comparatively few real must-have, timeless titles to their names, regardless of how the graphics in the games have dated. One day (if that day hasn't already come and gone) Halo, GTA San Andreas and Vice City will be frowned upon by some snot-faced little 8-year-olds as rubbish because the graphics are so out of date. Anyone here think those games are rubbish or should ever be labelled as such?

Getting back to the topic at hand, I think Sony's delays in releasing its new console are going to cost it big-time. Microsoft have a strong start in the next-generation console race, and Nintendo are certainly catching on as this year's must-have gadget. I don't think Sony are going to see the market domination they did with the PS1 or PS2, and I doubt very much that the built-in Blu-Ray player, coupled with the late release and subsequent lack of interest, will jump-start the interest the company needs to avoid losing countless millions on its HD format.

[Nervosa]

In our common room, there's a beaten up old Nintendo 64, with Mariokart and Tomorrow Never Dies constantly being played. I thought they both sucked. With regards to graphics, they aren't anywhere near as impressive as the X-Box of PS2. Given the N64 is old, but I've found this with any Nintendo I've played.

A common misconception that graphics = gameplay. Not true. Sure, if you want things pretty, you keep buying the newer consoles and the newer games. But the gameplay element has been nailed by Nintendo time and again, while Sony and Microsoft have comparatively few real must-have, timeless titles to their names, regardless of how the graphics in the games have dated. One day (if that day hasn't already come and gone) Halo, GTA San Andreas and Vice City will be frowned upon by some snot-faced little 8-year-olds as rubbish because the graphics are so out of date. Anyone here think those games are rubbish or should ever be labelled as such?

Getting back to the topic at hand, I think Sony's delays in releasing its new console are going to cost it big-time. Microsoft have a strong start in the next-generation console race, and Nintendo are certainly catching on as this year's must-have gadget. I don't think Sony are going to see the market domination they did with the PS1 or PS2, and I doubt very much that the built-in Blu-Ray player, coupled with the late release and subsequent lack of interest, will jump-start the interest the company needs to avoid losing countless millions on its HD format.

I know graphics don't always link to gameplay, but to me it plays a fairly large part. I think of we are playing a game in "pixcel vision", it ruins and distracts from the gameplay. Tomorrow Never Dies on the N64, not looking at graphics, I still felt the game was wick. The levels are monontonous and very boring, which I felt gave me a bad impression of the game. Though I remember when the N64 game out, it was all the rage. I remember paying Xtra-Vision an obscene amount to rent the console plus Golden Eye for one night and I thought it was excellent.

Like you say DHP, it's all relative. Some kid will frown on GTA one day (and I fear that day is coming soon), just like this generation frowns on the N64 and the like.

But I've only ever played the original Nintendo and the N64, so they're probably come a long way with the GameCube and the Wii.

[Bad Ambassador]

But I've only ever played the original Nintendo and the N64, so they're probably come a long way with the GameCube and the Wii.

Well, quite. Comparing the N64 to the Xbox graphically isn't really fair because the N64 was released about five years earlier.

There's no denying that the Wii has a fair bit less power than the 360 and the PS3, but this time Nintendo's going for a different market. As with the DS, which has thrashed the visually-superior PSP, the Wii is being aimed at people who are after a little bit more than just shiny graphics. And judging by the sales, it seems to be working!

[DHP]

But I've only ever played the original Nintendo and the N64, so they're probably come a long way with the GameCube and the Wii.

Well, quite. Comparing the N64 to the Xbox graphically isn't really fair because the N64 was released about five years earlier.

There's no denying that the Wii has a fair bit less power than the 360 and the PS3, but this time Nintendo's going for a different market. As with the DS, which has thrashed the visually-superior PSP, the Wii is being aimed at people who are after a little bit more than just shiny graphics. And judging by the sales, it seems to be working!

Just what I was saying. If you're only after graphics, you get games which by and large look pretty, but that's about it. Truly great and timeless games (which don't seem to come out as often as they used to these days) are those which can still be enjoyed to the same degree 10 years from now regardless of how many leaps and bounds realism in graphics have come on. A shining example would be The Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time. The graphics are blocky and chunky, but the actual game itself is so well-constructed, non-linear, varied and immersive that critics are still singing its praises as the finest game ever made. It's just a shame it was released on the N64 so it couldn't be played and loved by a wider audience.

I know graphics don't always link to gameplay.

By definition, graphics have nothing to do with gameplay. The gameplay element of a game is completely separate from how good or bad the graphics are.

[Stratman]

GoldenEye would be a heck of a lot better if everybody was given a mouse and keyboard. FPS just doesn't work on a console, IMHO.

Yet something else we'll have to disagree on! Keyboard and mouse combination is the work of the devil. GoldenEye and Metroid Prime are the only two FP games I've bothered to play for more than about an hour, because I found the controls so natural.

I don't know how people manage to aim and reload with the control pad. I'm pretty sure the mouse/keyboard combo is universally regarded as the gold standard. I certainly can't imagine playing Counter Strike with a control pad, that's for sure.

[DHP]

GoldenEye would be a heck of a lot better if everybody was given a mouse and keyboard. FPS just doesn't work on a console, IMHO.

Yet something else we'll have to disagree on! Keyboard and mouse combination is the work of the devil. GoldenEye and Metroid Prime are the only two FP games I've bothered to play for more than about an hour, because I found the controls so natural.

I don't know how people manage to aim and reload with the control pad. I'm pretty sure the mouse/keyboard combo is universally regarded as the gold standard. I certainly can't imagine playing Counter Strike with a control pad, that's for sure.

Just depends what you're used to. I find that people who grew up with one simply can't get used to the other for FPS games. I will agree that strategy games only work with a mouse and keyboard though. Can't imagine the likes of Command & Conquer with anything but a mouse.

[Bad Ambassador]

A shining example would be The Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time. The graphics are blocky and chunky, but the actual game itself is so well-constructed, non-linear, varied and immersive that critics are still singing its praises as the finest game ever made. It's just a shame it was released on the N64 so it couldn't be played and loved by a wider audience.

It was still bought by about 7/8 million people, I believe, so it wasn't limited!

Twilight Princess is superb, too - I've hardly made a dent in it but it's so beautifully crafted that it lifts your heart every time you play. If all developers put this much care into their games the market would be a much more healthy thing.

[Bad Ambassador]

I'm pretty sure the mouse/keyboard combo is universally regarded as the gold standard.

The gold standard for hardcore PC gamers, maybe. But the wider market wouldn't be interested in that kind of control method now, I don't think, and I don't blame them!

[Stratman]

I'm pretty sure the mouse/keyboard combo is universally regarded as the gold standard.

The gold standard for hardcore PC gamers, maybe. But the wider market wouldn't be interested in that kind of control method now, I don't think, and I don't blame them!

I don't know if there is a wider market than the hardcore PC gamer.

[Bad Ambassador]

I don't know if there is a wider market than the hardcore PC gamer.

It's called the 'fun' market!

[Davey Boy]

In our common room, there's a beaten up old Nintendo 64, with Mariokart and Tomorrow Never Dies constantly being played. I thought they both sucked. With regards to graphics, they aren't anywhere near as impressive as the X-Box of PS2. Given the N64 is old, but I've found this with any Nintendo I've played.

A common misconception that graphics = gameplay. Not true. Sure, if you want things pretty, you keep buying the newer consoles and the newer games. But the gameplay element has been nailed by Nintendo time and again, while Sony and Microsoft have comparatively few real must-have, timeless titles to their names, regardless of how the graphics in the games have dated. One day (if that day hasn't already come and gone) Halo, GTA San Andreas and Vice City will be frowned upon by some snot-faced little 8-year-olds as rubbish because the graphics are so out of date. Anyone here think those games are rubbish or should ever be labelled as such?

Getting back to the topic at hand, I think Sony's delays in releasing its new console are going to cost it big-time. Microsoft have a strong start in the next-generation console race, and Nintendo are certainly catching on as this year's must-have gadget. I don't think Sony are going to see the market domination they did with the PS1 or PS2, and I doubt very much that the built-in Blu-Ray player, coupled with the late release and subsequent lack of interest, will jump-start the interest the company needs to avoid losing countless millions on its HD format.

I know graphics don't always link to gameplay, but to me it plays a fairly large part. I think of we are playing a game in "pixcel vision", it ruins and distracts from the gameplay. Tomorrow Never Dies on the N64, not looking at graphics, I still felt the game was wick. The levels are monontonous and very boring, which I felt gave me a bad impression of the game. Though I remember when the N64 game out, it was all the rage. I remember paying Xtra-Vision an obscene amount to rent the console plus Golden Eye for one night and I thought it was excellent.

Like you say DHP, it's all relative. Some kid will frown on GTA one day (and I fear that day is coming soon), just like this generation frowns on the N64 and the like.

But I've only ever played the original Nintendo and the N64, so they're probably come a long way with the GameCube and the Wii.

My mates from school and I get together every 6 months or so for an N64 session. You can't beat Goldeneye, Smash Bros or Mario Kart for pure multiplayer value and in my oppinion they stand the test of time due to the standard of the gameplay.

[DHP]

My mates from school and I get together every 6 months or so for an N64 session. You can't beat Goldeneye, Smash Bros or Mario Kart for pure multiplayer value and in my oppinion they stand the test of time due to the standard of the gameplay.

You don't know how lucky you are. I foolishly GAVE my N64 away for free to a mate when I got my PS2 back in 2001. I had nearly all the classics on it too. GoldenEye, Mario 64, MarioKart 64, 1080, both Zeldas... man I miss it! Was pleased to get my hands on a Gamecube though, as they re-released the N64 Zeldas, so I got a chance to relive those pleasures again! I never played Smash Bros on the N64, but had it on the Gamecube. No-one does multiplayers like Nintendo!

[Davey Boy]

My mates from school and I get together every 6 months or so for an N64 session. You can't beat Goldeneye, Smash Bros or Mario Kart for pure multiplayer value and in my oppinion they stand the test of time due to the standard of the gameplay.

You don't know how lucky you are. I foolishly GAVE my N64 away for free to a mate when I got my PS2 back in 2001. I had nearly all the classics on it too. GoldenEye, Mario 64, MarioKart 64, 1080, both Zeldas... man I miss it! Was pleased to get my hands on a Gamecube though, as they re-released the N64 Zeldas, so I got a chance to relive those pleasures again! I never played Smash Bros on the N64, but had it on the Gamecube. No-one does multiplayers like Nintendo!

Smash Bros is quality. Any game which allows you to bash seven bells out of some of the more irratating Nintendo characters has to be a classic. But yeah Nintendo know how to do multiplayer and score bonus points for putting four controller ports on their consoles rather than two and then forcing you to splash out £25 for a multi tap.

[DHP]

Smash Bros is quality. Any game which allows you to bash seven bells out of some of the more irratating Nintendo characters has to be a classic. But yeah Nintendo know how to do multiplayer and score bonus points for putting four controller ports on their consoles rather than two and then forcing you to splash out £25 for a multi tap.

Agreed. I like how with their hardware as well as their software, they're not afraid to take risks and be adventurous. What's the new must-have feature of controllers on the XBox 360 and PS3? Wireless! Where was it first seen? Nintendo Gamecube's own Wavebird controller. And their new control system for the Wii is just catching on like a house on fire. I love the innovations Nintendo come up with. Sometimes they're popular, sometimes not, but I think they're fantastic for experimenting.

[Davey Boy]

Smash Bros is quality. Any game which allows you to bash seven bells out of some of the more irratating Nintendo characters has to be a classic. But yeah Nintendo know how to do multiplayer and score bonus points for putting four controller ports on their consoles rather than two and then forcing you to splash out £25 for a multi tap.

Agreed. I like how with their hardware as well as their software, they're not afraid to take risks and be adventurous. What's the new must-have feature of controllers on the XBox 360 and PS3? Wireless! Where was it first seen? Nintendo Gamecube's own Wavebird controller. And their new control system for the Wii is just catching on like a house on fire. I love the innovations Nintendo come up with. Sometimes they're popular, sometimes not, but I think they're fantastic for experimenting.

Yeah you are spot on there. Nintendo were the first of the "big" console manufacturers to implement shoulder buttons (SNES) and the first to implement a thumb controlled joystick (N64).

[DHP]

Just on a different topic (but within the theme of the overall topic) does anyone else here think that these new HD games are just ridiculously overpriced? There doesn't seem to be much that starts at less than £49.99. I think that's a bit ridiculous when in quite a few cases, particularly with XBox 360 games, you can just buy the same thing on the PC for £29.99 (which I personally feel is the RRP all games should be sold at).

[me123]

IMO, RRP between £20 and £30.

My friend's got a preorder of the PS3, so I'll have a look at it before I decide if it's worth buying in the near future. Seems too much like the PS2 to bother with just now, and the Wii is just so different and innovatove: Bravo Nintendo!

[DHP]

IMO, RRP between £20 and £30.

My friend's got a preorder of the PS3, so I'll have a look at it before I decide if it's worth buying in the near future. Seems too much like the PS2 to bother with just now, and the Wii is just so different and innovatove: Bravo Nintendo!

I'll probably end up with a PS3 as I think it's probably got a longer life ahead of it and based on the history of its older brothers should attract a wide variety of developers. It's also gonna get GTA4 before other formats, so that's an incentive to me, as well as GT5, MGS4 and other titles I enjoyed on the PS2. Although I may well get a Wii for the likes of Zelda and Mario, the former of which is such a brilliantly designed franchise and has made the RPG what it is today, on account of it being the first one of its kind!

[Bad Ambassador]

I may well end up buying a PS3 at some point in the future, if the games get better - but I'll be waiting until it's at least 75% lower in price than the £425 Sony is charging for it now!

[Moon-Crane]

I may well end up buying a PS3 at some point in the future, if the games get better - but I'll be waiting until it's at least 75% lower in price than the £425 Sony is charging for it now!

i agree, nothing about them justifies buying at that sort of price, just now.

[me123]

The biggest thing about the PS3 so far (for me anyway) is GTAIV, so I'll want to get it for that, but until then I'm happy with the good old PS2, and maybe a Wii.

[DHP]

The biggest thing about the PS3 so far (for me anyway) is GTAIV, so I'll want to get it for that, but until then I'm happy with the good old PS2, and maybe a Wii.

One thing's for sure, there's no way I'm getting one on the day of release, not at that price. And to have to pay £50 for a game on top of the console takes it closer to £600 for the top model, and that's without any extra accessories! Nope, I'll be waiting until autumn at the earliest, by which time hopefully stores will be doing deals on it where you at least get a bit of a reduction if you buy it with a game, or some kind of money-saving bundle or something. I'm with you though, GTA3, Vice City and San Andreas were the best things on the PS2, and they're gonna be the reasons to own the PS3 too.

[me123]

The biggest thing about the PS3 so far (for me anyway) is GTAIV, so I'll want to get it for that, but until then I'm happy with the good old PS2, and maybe a Wii.

One thing's for sure, there's no way I'm getting one on the day of release, not at that price. And to have to pay £50 for a game on top of the console takes it closer to £600 for the top model, and that's without any extra accessories! Nope, I'll be waiting until autumn at the earliest, by which time hopefully stores will be doing deals on it where you at least get a bit of a reduction if you buy it with a game, or some kind of money-saving bundle or something. I'm with you though, GTA3, Vice City and San Andreas were the best things on the PS2, and they're gonna be the reasons to own the PS3 too.

I'm bargaining on Christmas sales (forgive the pun ) and, if not, January sales because it'll be old enough for it not tyo be the hottest birthday present of the year and so on and so forth.

It does look cool though.

[DHP]

The biggest thing about the PS3 so far (for me anyway) is GTAIV, so I'll want to get it for that, but until then I'm happy with the good old PS2, and maybe a Wii.

One thing's for sure, there's no way I'm getting one on the day of release, not at that price. And to have to pay £50 for a game on top of the console takes it closer to £600 for the top model, and that's without any extra accessories! Nope, I'll be waiting until autumn at the earliest, by which time hopefully stores will be doing deals on it where you at least get a bit of a reduction if you buy it with a game, or some kind of money-saving bundle or something. I'm with you though, GTA3, Vice City and San Andreas were the best things on the PS2, and they're gonna be the reasons to own the PS3 too.

I'm bargaining on Christmas sales (forgive the pun ) and, if not, January sales because it'll be old enough for it not tyo be the hottest birthday present of the year and so on and so forth.

It does look cool though.

No arguments there. In september I start work full-time, so I'll be able to afford it even if it hasn't come down in price much (which I don't expect it will) so I'll probably pick one up this side of Christmas. Hoping to pick up a PSP too, as I hear there are some games that allow you to link the two consoles together for additional functionality. Nice feature really, and it worked great on the Gamecube with the Gameboy Advance connected to it, so it should be fantastic on Sony's bad boys!

[Davey Boy]

Nintendos pricing strategy on the Wii could turn out to be a winner, especially as it is coupled with much greater innovation. At the moment I would go with a Wii as I could get it at less than half the price of a PS3.