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Frasier or Niles

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Which character do you prefer?

Frasier
12
33%
Niles
24
67%
 
Total votes : 36

Postby Dorset Girl » Sat May 26, 2007 5:43 pm

Rob wrote:There is many an entry on this forum before where discussions have become quite heated as to DHP's abilities as an actor over KG's :wink: . I do believe it is one area where myself and Strat ever so slightly disagree. Unfortunately it has all been said and done before; you may have noticed Strats '......' at the end of his post above. So your popcorn may go to waste; sorry! :wink:

Having said that there are quite a few newcomers to this forum recently (which is great) who are already posting regularly. Most are remaining polite and courteous at the moment. Maybe this thread may see their more venemous side :twisted:


So, can I offer my opinion on this here, or will I just be referred to another thread? :D
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Postby Rodge » Sat May 26, 2007 5:57 pm

ryme-intrinseca wrote:
Rob wrote:There is many an entry on this forum before where discussions have become quite heated as to DHP's abilities as an actor over KG's :wink: . I do believe it is one area where myself and Strat ever so slightly disagree. Unfortunately it has all been said and done before; you may have noticed Strats '......' at the end of his post above. So your popcorn may go to waste; sorry! :wink:

Having said that there are quite a few newcomers to this forum recently (which is great) who are already posting regularly. Most are remaining polite and courteous at the moment. Maybe this thread may see their more venemous side :twisted:


So, can I offer my opinion on this here, or will I just be referred to another thread? :D


Please do, it's amazing how different people can put a whole new twist on a topic. :D
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Postby Dorset Girl » Sat May 26, 2007 6:12 pm

Okay then... I have never actively thought about who is the better actor when I've watched Frasier, so I'm just reviewing this in my head...

They are both great actors, but (this will come as no surprise, I'm sure!) DHP has the edge for me. His 'physical' acting just seems better, for instance the final scene in Taps at the Montana, where he flips over the chair, makes me laugh every time. Also, his gestures and facial expressions are funny but not overdone, such as in 'Moondance' where he realises he's said too much and claps his hand over his mouth - perfect comic timing (now go on, KG fans, tell me it's because Kelsey was directing!), and numerous times when he takes a sly glance at Daphne, even when the focus is not on him directly.

KG's expressions sometimes seem to me slightly overacted and too exaggerated - e.g. when Lilith stands up from the chair in his apartment. He steps back in shock, but his expression doesn't look plausible somehow.

Of course, I'm totally biased, so I think I actually need to sit down and watch an episode specifically to look at their acting styles to answer this properly.

This thread seems to have turned into several questions:

1. Who would you get on best with in real life - F or N?
2. Who do you prefer as a character?
3. Who is the better actor - K or D?

For me, it's hard to separate these things out.
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Postby Rodge » Sat May 26, 2007 6:51 pm

ryme-intrinseca wrote:They are both great actors, but (this will come as no surprise, I'm sure!) DHP has the edge for me. His 'physical' acting just seems better, for instance the final scene in Taps at the Montana, where he flips over the chair, makes me laugh every time. Also, his gestures and facial expressions are funny but not overdone, such as in 'Moondance' where he realises he's said too much and claps his hand over his mouth - perfect comic timing (now go on, KG fans, tell me it's because Kelsey was directing!), and numerous times when he takes a sly glance at Daphne, even when the focus is not on him directly.

KG's expressions sometimes seem to me slightly overacted and too exaggerated - e.g. when Lilith stands up from the chair in his apartment. He steps back in shock, but his expression doesn't look plausible somehow.


Great summary. Ironically I appear to be one of a few blokes who actually agree with everything you say above. I always considered KG as a bit of a "ham" actor, where as DHP is so much more subtle.
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Postby CatNamedRudy » Sat May 26, 2007 7:34 pm

Rob wrote:
CatNamedRudy wrote:
Rob wrote:
Cake for Brains wrote:Niles lost everything about him when he got together with Daphne, so for that reason, I'm picking Frasier.


But is it not true that most people agree that the show went downhill after Niles and Daphne got together. Does that not point out that Niles was a major player in the enjoyment of the show. You say " Niles lost everything about him when he got together with Daphne", almost as if the Niles we knew and loved had almost left the show! And when this happened the show plummeted in quality, even though Frasier remained the same character? Does this not mean that Niles was actually the best character????


For me the question wasn't which "character" makes the show work better. It was which guy, Frasier or Niles do you like better. That's why I picked Frasier. If I were to know these guys in "real life" (and I'm speaking of Frasier and Niles, not Kelsey and David), I think I'd be more apt to be drawn to Frasier. They are very similar men but Niles is just a bit more of fusspot than Frasier is. And as I said, I think Frasier comes off as the better "friend" of the two. That's not to put Niles in a negative light. I actually like both of them a lot.

Although I disagree that Niles was a better character. Why the show went downhill after Niles and Daphne got together is because there was not one, but two elements taken away. The unrequited love element and the Frasier/Niles element. That doesn't mean that Niles was a "better" character. It simply means that his character was an important part of the show. If you would have taken Martin out of the picture after S7, the show would have suffered as well. Does that mean that Martin was a better character?

Don't play the "better character" game with me my little Love Toy! You will lose! :wink:


It is one I was dubious about raising, because some of us have been here before, and when I really had to decide between the 4 main characters of Frasier, the one I would be the least unhappy about losing would be Frasier himself! :shock:


Hmmm.......be interesting to have a show called "Frasier" without the main character! Sorry, but without all of them the show would not survive!

That's actually what made it such a great show. They needed each other to work off of. Each had their own element to add and without said elements, a lot of the episodes fell flat.

And I certainly wouldn't disagree with the fact that Kelsey got hammy but that was what he was. Just as David was more of a physical comedy guy.

Personally, Kelsey's hamminess is one of the things I like best about him. His over the top stuff cracks me up.

I won't go into who I think is a better actor because I truthfully haven't seen enough of either of them in anything other than Frasier to gauge it.

Kelsey has been great in what I've seen him in and I would love to see him do something really dramatic and heavy.

David was great on stage and it was really fun to see him outside of Niles. I'd like to see him in something dramatic too.
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Postby Wezzo » Sat May 26, 2007 7:41 pm

ryme-intrinseca wrote:1. Who would you get on best with in real life - F or N?
2. Who do you prefer as a character?
3. Who is the better actor - K or D?


The three questions:

1. Frasier
2. Niles
3. Tie

So, er, I guess it's a tie overall for me?
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Postby Mr Blue Sky » Sat May 26, 2007 7:47 pm

I've added a voting option to this thread, after discussions with the O/P.

I'll add my two cents later - this is an interesting debate for such an age-old question!
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Postby CatNamedRudy » Sat May 26, 2007 7:52 pm

Obviously, my vote went to Frasier.

As a character and as the "guy" I'd like to know in real life.
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Postby Davey Boy » Sat May 26, 2007 8:08 pm

I have gone with Frasier. Whilst I do like both of the characters alot I think the one pitfall of Niles (and again maybe this is me relating to this poll as if I had to choose one to meet) is his inherent spinelessness (if that is a word)! The example that jumps to mind is in the episode Ain't Nobody's Business If I Do [spoiler]where Niles hires a private eye to snoop on Sherry when he and Frasier believe Marty is going to propose to her. At the end of the episode when Marty finds out Frasier is willing to take an equal share of the blame even though Niles was the one to initially hire the private eye, Niles briefly claims he wasn't involved. [/spoiler]Very funny yes and obviously we know Niles is a good guy but that character trait in peope drives me mad!
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Postby Moon-Crane » Sat May 26, 2007 8:09 pm

I went for Frasier. Niles was a colder character over all. It did take the return of Frasier to create a family bond between the boys and their father. I think i could get on fine with the pair though, if they gave me the chance.

This isn't really an argument where the ability of the actors should be coming into it.
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Postby Dorset Girl » Sat May 26, 2007 8:10 pm

Davey Boy wrote:I have gone with Frasier. Whilst I do like both of the characters alot I think the one pitfall of Niles (and again maybe this is me relating to this poll as if I had to choose one to meet) is his inherent spinelessness (if that is a word)!


Yes, that bugs me too. Which episode is it that Frasier says something like "it's a good job there's starch in that shirt, it's the only thing that's holding you upright!"

I know it's just after Niles says he will go to Maris's party, when actually he'd phoned her up to tell her what he thought of her for ruining his party!
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Postby Moon-Crane » Sat May 26, 2007 8:12 pm

Davey Boy wrote:I have gone with Frasier. Whilst I do like both of the characters alot I think the one pitfall of Niles (and again maybe this is me relating to this poll as if I had to choose one to meet) is his inherent spinelessness (if that is a word)! The example that jumps to mind is in the episode Ain't Nobody's Business If I Do [spoiler]where Niles hires a private eye to snoop on Sherry when he and Frasier believe Marty is going to propose to her. At the end of the episode when Marty finds out Frasier is willing to take an equal share of the blame even though Niles was the one to initially hire the private eye, Niles briefly claims he wasn't involved. [/spoiler]Very funny yes and obviously we know Niles is a good guy but that character trait in peope drives me mad!


Also in Dad Loves Sherry.... [spoiler]where they want to tell Martin that they don't like Sherry. When Frasier inadvertently lets it slip, Niles tries to deny any knowledge of such thoughts for that split second[/spoiler].
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Postby Mr Blue Sky » Sat May 26, 2007 9:54 pm

Moon-Crane wrote:
Davey Boy wrote:I have gone with Frasier. Whilst I do like both of the characters alot I think the one pitfall of Niles (and again maybe this is me relating to this poll as if I had to choose one to meet) is his inherent spinelessness (if that is a word)! The example that jumps to mind is in the episode Ain't Nobody's Business If I Do [spoiler]where Niles hires a private eye to snoop on Sherry when he and Frasier believe Marty is going to propose to her. At the end of the episode when Marty finds out Frasier is willing to take an equal share of the blame even though Niles was the one to initially hire the private eye, Niles briefly claims he wasn't involved. [/spoiler]Very funny yes and obviously we know Niles is a good guy but that character trait in peope drives me mad!


Also in Dad Loves Sherry.... [spoiler]where they want to tell Martin that they don't like Sherry. When Frasier inadvertently lets it slip, Niles tries to deny any knowledge of such thoughts for that split second[/spoiler].


Conversely, in Room Full Of Heroes...[spoiler]after Niles makes an ass of himself dressed as Martin and manages to offend him Frasier pipes up with "That's why I didn't come as you dad!" which wasn't even a very funny line IMO.[/spoiler] I blame Zicklin for that whole uncomfortable mess in the last 5 minutes of what was an enjoyable episode.
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Postby domi_dot_com » Sun May 27, 2007 3:42 am

Niles, he's HILARIOUS and he starts all the fights between him and Frasier! i think his character is funnier that anyone else, he's just so pathetic it's funny :D :D :D
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Postby Seek_Help_from_an_M.D. » Sun May 27, 2007 4:38 am

ryme-intrinseca wrote:Okay then... I have never actively thought about who is the better actor when I've watched Frasier, so I'm just reviewing this in my head...

They are both great actors, but (this will come as no surprise, I'm sure!) DHP has the edge for me. His 'physical' acting just seems better, for instance the final scene in Taps at the Montana, where he flips over the chair, makes me laugh every time. Also, his gestures and facial expressions are funny but not overdone, such as in 'Moondance' where he realises he's said too much and claps his hand over his mouth - perfect comic timing (now go on, KG fans, tell me it's because Kelsey was directing!), and numerous times when he takes a sly glance at Daphne, even when the focus is not on him directly.

KG's expressions sometimes seem to me slightly overacted and too exaggerated - e.g. when Lilith stands up from the chair in his apartment. He steps back in shock, but his expression doesn't look plausible somehow.

Of course, I'm totally biased, so I think I actually need to sit down and watch an episode specifically to look at their acting styles to answer this properly.

This thread seems to have turned into several questions:

1. Who would you get on best with in real life - F or N?
2. Who do you prefer as a character?
3. Who is the better actor - K or D?

For me, it's hard to separate these things out.


1. Frasier
2. Frasier
3. Kelsey Grammer

About Kelsey being kind of hammy, well I think that had to do with Frasier because Frasier exagerates, but I liked it, it was ment to be there and for me it worked. I've seen some other work, from both Kelsey and David. I just got to say that I think Kelsey is a terrific actor from everything I've seen him in, and I think he can play just about any character. Yes, he's really fun, but the dramatic stuff, pretty cool (only spelt with a kewl.)
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Postby Pisa32 » Sun May 27, 2007 1:00 pm

Seek_Help_from_an_M.D. wrote:
ryme-intrinseca wrote:Okay then... I have never actively thought about who is the better actor when I've watched Frasier, so I'm just reviewing this in my head...

They are both great actors, but (this will come as no surprise, I'm sure!) DHP has the edge for me. His 'physical' acting just seems better, for instance the final scene in Taps at the Montana, where he flips over the chair, makes me laugh every time. Also, his gestures and facial expressions are funny but not overdone, such as in 'Moondance' where he realises he's said too much and claps his hand over his mouth - perfect comic timing (now go on, KG fans, tell me it's because Kelsey was directing!), and numerous times when he takes a sly glance at Daphne, even when the focus is not on him directly.

KG's expressions sometimes seem to me slightly overacted and too exaggerated - e.g. when Lilith stands up from the chair in his apartment. He steps back in shock, but his expression doesn't look plausible somehow.

Of course, I'm totally biased, so I think I actually need to sit down and watch an episode specifically to look at their acting styles to answer this properly.

This thread seems to have turned into several questions:

1. Who would you get on best with in real life - F or N?
2. Who do you prefer as a character?
3. Who is the better actor - K or D?

For me, it's hard to separate these things out.


1. Frasier
2. Frasier
3. Kelsey Grammer

About Kelsey being kind of hammy, well I think that had to do with Frasier because Frasier exagerates, but I liked it, it was ment to be there and for me it worked. I've seen some other work, from both Kelsey and David. I just got to say that I think Kelsey is a terrific actor from everything I've seen him in, and I think he can play just about any character. Yes, he's really fun, but the dramatic stuff, pretty cool (only spelt with a kewl.)


Hmmm...for me it would have to be:
1.Niles
2.Niles
3. Can't decide, although KG has the most experience IMO

As for Kelsey exaggerating, I also think it's great. I just love the way he says "Get out!" in A man, a Plan and a Gal: Julia. But David is certainly the master of physical comedy (though we can see KG can pull it off in Adventures in Paradise!)
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Postby DHP » Sun May 27, 2007 3:32 pm

Frasier has the edge for me over Niles. I prefer DHP as a performer, but Frasier's got a much more interesting history and is just a more interesting character to watch, especially when you include all his history from Cheers. So as much as I enjoy Niles and believe Frasier wouldn't have been nearly as good as it was without him, I think Frasier is the better character.
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Postby Mayday Malone » Sun May 27, 2007 7:17 pm

Niles started off being my favourite but switched to Frasier though I have affection for Niles still. I think imitating Frasier is one key factor.
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Postby PeppotheDwarf » Mon May 28, 2007 1:50 pm

Ah it appears Niles has the edge at the moment, and while Frasier is a Freudian, Niles is a Union, so there will be no blaming mother today.


(I realise i spelled all of that wrong)
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Postby Mr Blue Sky » Mon May 28, 2007 2:03 pm

PeppotheDwarf wrote:Ah it appears Niles has the edge at the moment, and while Frasier is a Freudian, Niles is a Union, so there will be no blaming mother today.


(I realise i spelled all of that wrong)


Jung-ian I think, due to his appreciation of Carl Jung.

I mistakenly thought he said 'Union' when I first saw the ep though.
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Postby CatNamedRudy » Mon May 28, 2007 2:05 pm

PeppotheDwarf wrote:Ah it appears Niles has the edge at the moment, and while Frasier is a Freudian, Niles is a Union, so there will be no blaming mother today.


(I realise i spelled all of that wrong)


Well, I blame Rob! :wink:
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Postby Bee Gees Fan » Mon May 28, 2007 2:10 pm

It's okay for Frasier to have 9 votes. 9 is a great number.
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Postby Mayday Malone » Mon May 28, 2007 3:52 pm

More for Frasier I say!
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Postby PeppotheDwarf » Mon May 28, 2007 4:51 pm

Beer Necessity wrote:
PeppotheDwarf wrote:Ah it appears Niles has the edge at the moment, and while Frasier is a Freudian, Niles is a Union, so there will be no blaming mother today.


(I realise i spelled all of that wrong)


Jung-ian I think, due to his appreciation of Carl Jung.

I mistakenly thought he said 'Union' when I first saw the ep though.


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Postby Rodge » Mon May 28, 2007 9:04 pm

CatNamedRudy wrote:
PeppotheDwarf wrote:Ah it appears Niles has the edge at the moment, and while Frasier is a Freudian, Niles is a Union, so there will be no blaming mother today.


(I realise i spelled all of that wrong)


Well, I blame Rob! :wink:


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