Dorset Girl wrote:Aw, I love your posts! Have you been smoking something weird, BGF? I can never tell....
Patrick wrote:Anything is possible but some things though not impossible are very very unlikely. It took three billion years for life to evolve on Earth from single cell organisms to people with technology. Leaving aside the unlikelihood of another planet Earth-like anywhere near in the universe the chances for such planet of reaching the technological stage during the same millenium as we did are one in 3 MILLION, IOW if aliens from another planet had discovered ours it would likely have been a very long time ago and do you see any reason why they would have dealt with us any differently than we did with the primitive people of the lands we've discovered? I don't. So, in conclusion, no aliens.
Bee Gees Fan wrote:Patrick wrote:Anything is possible but some things though not impossible are very very unlikely. It took three billion years for life to evolve on Earth from single cell organisms to people with technology. Leaving aside the unlikelihood of another planet Earth-like anywhere near in the universe the chances for such planet of reaching the technological stage during the same millenium as we did are one in 3 MILLION, IOW if aliens from another planet had discovered ours it would likely have been a very long time ago and do you see any reason why they would have dealt with us any differently than we did with the primitive people of the lands we've discovered? I don't. So, in conclusion, no aliens.
I'm neutral on the subject of life on other planets - I don't discount it. But I'm more interested, in this thread, in what and who people think the MIB are. Do you think it's possible that they work for the government or intelligence agencies?
Patrick wrote:Do you think that you have established that the MIBs are anything more than a myth?
Bee Gees Fan wrote:Patrick wrote:Do you think that you have established that the MIBs are anything more than a myth?
I just think that with so very many witnesses claiming to be visited by these men - and many of them very sensible people who I believe are genuine - then my opinion is that the MIB, whoever they are, are real. I think people are really being sent to bully and intimidate UFO witnesses. It's not just UFO witnesses, I think UFO researchers are targeted as well.
I would say I've established that they're more than a myth for *myself* - reading the reports/accounts, there are so many, that I believe something is going on. I take it your opinion is that the MIB are a myth, though?
Moon-Crane wrote:The only people who talk about MIB are so-called ufologists and general conspiracy theorists.
Bee Gees Fan wrote:IMO, ufologists and conspiracy theories aren't less trustworthy than anyone else, though. That's not to say they're right, but I don't think their opinions and ideas should be discounted just because they're ufologists or whatever.
What about the witnesses who say they have been visited by men who interrogate and intimidate them? Okay, I know it's anecdotal/hearsay, what have you, but what do you make of these people's claims that people are approaching them and bullying them into silence? Do you think they're lying about it?
I don't know if you've heard of Jenny Randles, but I've been reading her book on the MIB. She used to be involved with BUFORA (British UFO Research Association.) She seems like a reasonable and fair individual. It's looking at her book that got me interested in exploring the phenomenon of the MIB.
Moon-Crane wrote:Most, i would say, do need to be discounted. They simply don't accept hard evidence. Take, for example, the moon landing conspiracy theorists. They spout and repeat the same drivel arguments over and over, even when they've been presented with the irrefutable evidence that destroys their theory into a billion pieces. They don't want to hear the facts. They carry on parroting the nonsense. People like that, i most certainly will discount their opinions on pretty much anything.
Moon-Crane wrote:Yes, or are simply mistaken for any number of reasons.
Moon-Crane wrote: I have lots of anecdotal evidence regarding my personal experience of various things. It doens't make my opinion useful evidence regarding anything at all.
Moon-Crane wrote:There are many otherwise 'reasonable and fair' individuals out there that believe in crazy stuff.
Moon-Crane wrote:The actor Jason Lee, for example, seems like a genuinely affable, reasonable, sort of guy - yet he believes in a batshit nutty religion.
Bee Gees Fan wrote:I'll listen to a moon landing conspiracy theorist - I don't believe they are right in any way at all but I'll still let them have their say and listen to their arguments.
[...]
I just think it's only fair to hear what someone has to say, rather than immediately discounting them or writing them off.
[...]
It seems like you automatically discount the opinions of the 'sensible' researchers, and I personally wouldn't think that's the best thing to do.
Oh, are you a fan of Jason Lee? I've got into My Name Is Earl in the last couple of months, after watching most of the first season. Funny, zany show. My friend can't stand it, though, I've shown him a few episodes and he finds the 'white trash' aspect horrible to watch.
Moon-Crane wrote:No, don't get me wrong, i'm open to listening to anybody to begin with. I don't know if this is going to simply come down to an age thing, with you being much younger than i - maybe others could chip in if they can be bothered - but i've reached a point in life where i have to filter things and prioritise.
Moon-Crane wrote:stories and anecdotes that can't be backed up by good solid verifiable evidence, then i'd have no time left to get on with the rest of my life. Life's too short.
Moon-Crane wrote:Once somebody can produce clear, independently verifiable, reproducable evidence for any of their supernatural claims, then i'll be the first to read and watch with interest.
Moon-Crane wrote: As Carl Sagan said, "extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence".
Moon-Crane wrote:So, yes, i will listen to the initial claims, and may even start to listen to the evidence presented.
Moon-Crane wrote:Once it gets to the point that the 'evidence' is clearly nothing but a bunch of anecdotes and/or selective datamining, i have to use my previous experience to tell me to bow out.
Moon-Crane wrote:Put it this way. We all read and veer towards the things that personally interest us.
Moon-Crane wrote:For example, I can't imagine you'd read a multi-hundred-page scientific report on the biological and psychological reasons for near death experiences.
Moon-Crane wrote:The stories from people who claim to have genuinely experienced it are far more easily digestible, and easily believable to those who wish to believe in it. It's not as interesting, or generally human nature, to do the spadework in reading peer-reviewed articles from science and medical professionals and then comparing the details of the given story to the evidence from studies around the world, and so contextualising the experiences. The technicalities of explaining how the brain works, how our cultures impact, general biology, etc, is very dry in comparison to someone telling you about tunnels of light and angels and meeting dead relatives, etc.
Moon-Crane wrote:Read what interests you, though.
Moon-Crane wrote:I still like old David Icke
Moon-Crane wrote:If you like My Name Is Earl, have you seen Raising Hope? Not a Jason Lee show (although he cameos in a couple of episodes) but it's from the Earl writers, and of a similar bent.
James "Jimmy" Chance is a clueless 25-year-old who impregnates a serial killer during a one-night-stand. Earning custody of his daughter after the mother is sentenced to death and electrocuted, Jimmy relies on his eccentric but well-intentioned family for support in raising the child.
Moon-Crane wrote:Just a note to say i'm not ignoring your post, BGF. I'll reply in the new year. Not had enough proper time to spend online over xmas/ny. Probably same again this week. See you back on here at the weekend.
Bee Gees Fan wrote:Aww, MC, have you forgotten us here?
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