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Re: The Cricket Thread

Postby Mr Blue Sky » Tue Mar 20, 2012 11:40 am

Moon-Crane wrote:Agreed. I can't see Bradman's average ever being surpassed. Nobody is anywhere near it in the whole of Test Cricket history. I can see Tendulkar's total number of centuries being surpassed. Quantity of games in all formats will see another great player do it.


Exactly right with Tendulkar, particularly if 20/20 centuries come into play (although they're obiously pretty rare in themselves) but the amount of cricket being played now is so much more than even a decade ago.

I just think it's a dangerous thing to predict that any record will never be beaten. Most competetive sports have only been properly organised and statistised for the last century and a half or so, which could be the merest fraction of the entire time for which these sports will endure.

Without a full knowledge of all world sports I'm probably not qualified to say this, but for all the sports I've watched I'd say Bradman's Test average is probably the greatest record of them all, and will probably last the longest period of time.
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Re: The Cricket Thread

Postby Moon-Crane » Tue Mar 20, 2012 4:13 pm

Mr Blue Sky wrote:
Moon-Crane wrote:Agreed. I can't see Bradman's average ever being surpassed. Nobody is anywhere near it in the whole of Test Cricket history. I can see Tendulkar's total number of centuries being surpassed. Quantity of games in all formats will see another great player do it.


Exactly right with Tendulkar, particularly if 20/20 centuries come into play (although they're obiously pretty rare in themselves) but the amount of cricket being played now is so much more than even a decade ago.

I just think it's a dangerous thing to predict that any record will never be beaten. Most competetive sports have only been properly organised and statistised for the last century and a half or so, which could be the merest fraction of the entire time for which these sports will endure.

Without a full knowledge of all world sports I'm probably not qualified to say this, but for all the sports I've watched I'd say Bradman's Test average is probably the greatest record of them all, and will probably last the longest period of time.


Yeah, i'd never say never - but it's the most unlikely one i can think of.

I wonder if there are any other sports where one player has been so far ahead of any fellow professional in the stats? The next closest i can think of - from Brit related sports i know about - is Phil Taylor in the darts.
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Re: The Cricket Thread

Postby tubalcain » Tue Mar 20, 2012 9:34 pm

It's hard to compare a winning team with, say, an individual. But does that mean a winning team consists of equally talented individuals pulling together?

I'll take eleven Phil Taylors with a cricket bat.. in exchange for The Don and a dartboard. :)
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Re: The Cricket Thread

Postby Mr Blue Sky » Wed Mar 21, 2012 9:18 am

tubalcain wrote:It's hard to compare a winning team with, say, an individual. But does that mean a winning team consists of equally talented individuals pulling together?

I'll take eleven Phil Taylors with a cricket bat.. in exchange for The Don and a dartboard. :)


The beauty of Bradman's average is that it's completely unreflective of his team mates (although you could argue someone has to be standing at the other end). It says more about the bowling of that era but his average included playing through the Bodyline series and compiling his scores on uncovered pitches. In fact you could say that alone will always mark him out as the greatest as even if anyone surpasses his average it will be made on pitches that are far more predictable than anything The Don played on.
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Re: The Cricket Thread

Postby tubalcain » Wed Mar 21, 2012 10:31 am

I would certainly agree with that.

Although he had some great batsmen of the era to support him in some memorable stands, he alone is remembered as the premier player of the day. England of course had Walter Hammond to fly the flag on those uncovered pitches, but taking the bodyline series at face value you have to be somewhat impressed with what The Don achieved.

I've tried batting practice with a stump for the bat and a golf ball to return against a wall; it ain't easy.. :lol:
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Re: The Cricket Thread

Postby Moon-Crane » Thu Mar 22, 2012 4:23 pm

tubalcain wrote:I would certainly agree with that.

Although he had some great batsmen of the era to support him in some memorable stands, he alone is remembered as the premier player of the day. England of course had Walter Hammond to fly the flag on those uncovered pitches, but taking the bodyline series at face value you have to be somewhat impressed with what The Don achieved.

I've tried batting practice with a stump for the bat and a golf ball to return against a wall; it ain't easy.. :lol:


If you think of our best batsmen - Hammond, Barrington, Hobbs, Sutcliffe, Hutton, etc. Even those great players are averaging the thick side of forty-odd fewer runs than Bradman. It's truly astonishing by any standards. Staggering anomaly.
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Re: The Cricket Thread

Postby tubalcain » Thu Mar 22, 2012 9:05 pm

Moon-Crane wrote:
tubalcain wrote:I would certainly agree with that.

Although he had some great batsmen of the era to support him in some memorable stands, he alone is remembered as the premier player of the day. England of course had Walter Hammond to fly the flag on those uncovered pitches, but taking the bodyline series at face value you have to be somewhat impressed with what The Don achieved.

I've tried batting practice with a stump for the bat and a golf ball to return against a wall; it ain't easy.. :lol:


If you think of our best batsmen - Hammond, Barrington, Hobbs, Sutcliffe, Hutton, etc. Even those great players are averaging the thick side of forty-odd fewer runs than Bradman. It's truly astonishing by any standards. Staggering anomaly.


The next best would have to be the West Indian George Headley. I know of the comparisons he had drawn with The Don; I see he earned his other nickname of Atlas by being the individual who also carried the team throughout many seasons. And all that with the Test average still thirty less than Bradman.. * reels *
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Re: The Cricket Thread

Postby Moon-Crane » Fri Mar 23, 2012 2:03 am

tubalcain wrote:
Moon-Crane wrote:
tubalcain wrote:I would certainly agree with that.

Although he had some great batsmen of the era to support him in some memorable stands, he alone is remembered as the premier player of the day. England of course had Walter Hammond to fly the flag on those uncovered pitches, but taking the bodyline series at face value you have to be somewhat impressed with what The Don achieved.

I've tried batting practice with a stump for the bat and a golf ball to return against a wall; it ain't easy.. :lol:


If you think of our best batsmen - Hammond, Barrington, Hobbs, Sutcliffe, Hutton, etc. Even those great players are averaging the thick side of forty-odd fewer runs than Bradman. It's truly astonishing by any standards. Staggering anomaly.


The next best would have to be the West Indian George Headley. I know of the comparisons he had drawn with The Don; I see he earned his other nickname of Atlas by being the individual who also carried the team throughout many seasons. And all that with the Test average still thirty less than Bradman.. * reels *


Graeme Pollock was up there somewhere as well. I think there wasn't much between Pollock, Headley and Sutcliffe - all around the 61 average? I think only Sutcliffe, of those guys, played a comparable number of matches to Bradman.

Every other player in history would love to have their Test Match averages, let alone reaching Bradman's lofty heights.

Edit: Couldn't resist having a look at the list on Cricinfo
http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/content/records/282910.html
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Re: The Cricket Thread

Postby tubalcain » Fri Mar 23, 2012 2:58 am

Yep, that's a good list.

Looking down a little you find Virender Sehwag; many more innings, a record holder as the only player to hit a double hundred in One Day, and a Test triple. But look at his overall placing.. How on earth do we find a modern day Bradman beater??

I suppose Alastair Cook has the credentials; another decade of the 2010/11 opening stands would just about make it even money? Like that's going to happen.. :)
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Re: The Cricket Thread

Postby Mr Blue Sky » Mon Mar 26, 2012 2:50 pm

Decent(ish) start to the Sri Lankan test for England. It's amazing how many times we seem to have a team on the run but they manage to hang on through one batsman's brilliance. From all accounts Jayawardene was never in trouble during his imperious 168no and was hogging the strike like a good 'un when I tuned in to listen.

If we can still manage to dismiss them for 300 it'll be a good performance. Anything above 350 would have to be viewed as a failure from our point of view after such a good start.

EDIT: Reading the reports it sounds like both Jimmy Anderson and Monty spilled a couple of catches each so it was maybe bad fielding that cost us today. Wonder how our batsmen will do?
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Re: The Cricket Thread

Postby Mr Blue Sky » Tue Mar 27, 2012 7:27 pm

^^^I can't say I'm totally shocked at our batting collapse today. Those players are obviously very good on English seaming wickets but they're lost on the sub continent facing a spinner. I'm sure Sri Lanka will put the game beyond us tomorrow.
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Re: The Cricket Thread

Postby Moon-Crane » Thu Mar 29, 2012 2:40 am

Mr Blue Sky wrote:^^^I can't say I'm totally shocked at our batting collapse today. Those players are obviously very good on English seaming wickets but they're lost on the sub continent facing a spinner. I'm sure Sri Lanka will put the game beyond us tomorrow.


Been kind of following this match. (I always forget how much I use and take for granted the full blown BBC website until i'm using the stripped back version while out of the UK). We need Trott to anchor one end and hopefully allow Pietersen to bat us to the required total.

In spite of the way it's played out so far, I have been pleased to see Prior moved up to six, to allow Patel, Swann and Panesar in there with Anderson and Broad.
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Re: The Cricket Thread

Postby Mr Blue Sky » Thu Mar 29, 2012 6:39 am

Moon-Crane wrote:
Mr Blue Sky wrote:^^^I can't say I'm totally shocked at our batting collapse today. Those players are obviously very good on English seaming wickets but they're lost on the sub continent facing a spinner. I'm sure Sri Lanka will put the game beyond us tomorrow.


Been kind of following this match. (I always forget how much I use and take for granted the full blown BBC website until i'm using the stripped back version while out of the UK). We need Trott to anchor one end and hopefully allow Pietersen to bat us to the required total.

In spite of the way it's played out so far, I have been pleased to see Prior moved up to six, to allow Patel, Swann and Panesar in there with Anderson and Broad.


Didn't realise you were out of the country - somewhere nice I hope.

Heh, 'we just need Pietersen to bat us to the total', so he gets out in the third over of the day :roll: Bell's looking a bit more solid now with Trott but I'd still be frankly astonished if we weren't all out for tea. Great chance for an historic performance though :D
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Re: The Cricket Thread

Postby Mr Blue Sky » Thu Mar 29, 2012 8:45 am

Heh, Bell went for a song in the end but dare I suggest Prior looks like he wants to be there at the end. Trott's played magnificently so far. I hope he gets his century but we'll need more than that from him if we're to win the game from here. No less than a Jayawardene style effort from the first innings will do.
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Re: The Cricket Thread

Postby Moon-Crane » Thu Mar 29, 2012 5:40 pm

Mr Blue Sky wrote:Heh, Bell went for a song in the end but dare I suggest Prior looks like he wants to be there at the end. Trott's played magnificently so far. I hope he gets his century but we'll need more than that from him if we're to win the game from here. No less than a Jayawardene style effort from the first innings will do.

I'm in Hong Kong at the moment. Cricket's not really too high on their agenda in the sports news :lol:

Should have probably won that match by all accounts? Our batting has really gone to the dogs. Trott's the only consistent player of late. Prior's reliable enough, and Cook's the only other one who looks capable of making runs. Very strange.

Four defeats in a row now for the '#1 Test Nation' :roll:
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Re: The Cricket Thread

Postby Mr Blue Sky » Thu Mar 29, 2012 7:10 pm

Moon-Crane wrote:I'm in Hong Kong at the moment. Cricket's not really too high on their agenda in the sports news :lol:


Very nice! Visiting with the missus or a work thing?

I actually didn't realise the BBC Sport website was scaled back outside the UK - shows how little I've travelled abroad in the last few years :lol:

Should have probably won that match by all accounts? Our batting has really gone to the dogs. Trott's the only consistent player of late. Prior's reliable enough, and Cook's the only other one who looks capable of making runs. Very strange.

Four defeats in a row now for the '#1 Test Nation' :roll:


Frustrating to get so close to that seemingly impossible target only to chuck it away with a few loose shots. You can forgive Trott for being out there so long in the baking heat but once Prior was gone you sensed the end would come quickly.

Yep, four test defeats on the bounce. I'm trying to put them in perspective and say historically (i.e. the last 100 years or so) we've never done well on the sub-continent. This is hardly a world-class Sri Lankan side though, that's the worry.
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Re: The Cricket Thread

Postby Moon-Crane » Fri Mar 30, 2012 6:49 pm

Mr Blue Sky wrote:Very nice! Visiting with the missus or a work thing?

I actually didn't realise the BBC Sport website was scaled back outside the UK - shows how little I've travelled abroad in the last few years :lol:

Bit of a holiday with the missus, as her parents had to go over and asked us to tag along.

Frustrating to get so close to that seemingly impossible target only to chuck it away with a few loose shots. You can forgive Trott for being out there so long in the baking heat but once Prior was gone you sensed the end would come quickly.

Yep, four test defeats on the bounce. I'm trying to put them in perspective and say historically (i.e. the last 100 years or so) we've never done well on the sub-continent. This is hardly a world-class Sri Lankan side though, that's the worry.

As long as the don't revert back to six specialist batsmen after that result, i think we could still actually do ok. Just need some confidence from the batting lineup.
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Re: The Cricket Thread

Postby Mr Blue Sky » Thu Apr 05, 2012 4:44 am

Solid day's play from England - they've left it a bit late in the tour to start looking comfortable with the bat on these sub-continent wickets.

Hopefully Cooky can get his century and Trott puts in another shift to give us a decent first innings' lead and put the Sri Lankans under pressure for once.
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Re: The Cricket Thread

Postby Mr Blue Sky » Fri Apr 06, 2012 12:36 am

Ha, Pietersen had one of his best ever knocks for England and all everyone wants to talk about is the 'switch hitting' controversy. Personally I'm just glad to see him back in good form again.

I reckon we need to have them at least 5 or 6 down by the time they reach our total to have any chance of forcing a win. We've got two full days left to do it though.
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Re: The Cricket Thread

Postby Moon-Crane » Tue Apr 10, 2012 2:58 pm

Good win that. Best all round performance for a while. Pity Cook didn't get his ton in the first innings, but he's looked far more like his old self - and it's been nice to see KP playing a couple of good knocks.
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Re: The Cricket Thread

Postby Moon-Crane » Thu Apr 12, 2012 8:39 pm

How the hell did the Windies conspire to lose that Test Match against Australia? :lol:
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Re: The Cricket Thread

Postby Mr Blue Sky » Sun Apr 15, 2012 7:38 am

Moon-Crane wrote:How the hell did the Windies conspire to lose that Test Match against Australia? :lol:


:lol: I know - incredible that.
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Re: The Cricket Thread

Postby Mr Blue Sky » Sun May 20, 2012 9:15 am

Decent first Test so far from England against the Windies. Good to see Strauss manage a decent knock - that will almost certainly keep the pressure off him long enough to achieve his 100th cap.

It's a brilliant line up on TMS at the moment. Not only the wonderful Aggers, Blowers and Boycott commentary but the fatastic Viv Richards in there as well. Very funny listening to the Windies 3rd wicket fall in their second innings (a run out) and Viv throwing down his headphones in disgust :D
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Re: The Cricket Thread

Postby Hans the German Butler » Sun May 20, 2012 9:30 am

Mr Blue Sky wrote:Decent first Test so far from England against the Windies. Good to see Strauss manage a decent knock - that will almost certainly keep the pressure off him long enough to achieve his 100th cap.

It's a brilliant line up on TMS at the moment. Not only the wonderful Aggers, Blowers and Boycott commentary but the fatastic Viv Richards in there as well. Very funny listening to the Windies 3rd wicket fall in their second innings (a run out) and Viv throwing down his headphones in disgust :D


The run out they suffered in their first innings was worse. I'd be surprised if he hadn't just twatted the TMS cat after that.
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Re: The Cricket Thread

Postby Moon-Crane » Sun May 20, 2012 11:09 am

Been keeping an eye on that match mainly via the BBC live text webpage. Looks like we should wrap up a win in this game. I'd have expected us to comfortably pass 400 on that pitch when Pietersen fell at 244, but we had a bit of a collapse in losing 5 for 98, and i should be grateful for Swanny's knock, i suppose.

Can't really complain if we win the match.

Always good value to have King Viv in the commentary box :D

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