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What do you think of suicide?

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What do you think of suicide?

Postby Bee Gees Fan » Wed Jan 18, 2006 12:49 am

I'm in two minds about suicide, myself.

On the one hand, I'd be very upset if anyone close to me took their life...but on the other hand, I think if people really want to die, should they be stopped? If someone is really miserable, should they be forced to live?

If there ever came a time in my life when I felt like killing myself, I probably wouldn't want people judging me and telling me it was wrong...I'm not really sure where to stand on this. I'd probably try to dissuade a friend or a family member from doing it, but if I was ever depressed enough to commit suicide, then it's possible I'd do it without blinking an eye. It's kind of hard...I don't know where I stand. Suicide's a tricky issue for me to form an opinion on.
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Postby roz11 » Wed Jan 18, 2006 4:41 pm

I agree it really is tricky to form an opinion. I think that sometimes people do it for stupid reasons. I feel it should only really happen when somebody is going to die from an illness but want to speed their death up a bit. Hope this makes sense.
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Postby Shoryuken » Wed Jan 18, 2006 8:58 pm

I think assisted suicide in cases of terminal illness is ok, but taking your life for other reasons is IMO selfish. What about your family, friends and even 'associates' (let alone the poor sod who finds you)?

Then again, if you havent the right to take your own life (it is, after all, *your* life), what rights do you have? Im confused on the issue I think..
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Postby roz11 » Wed Jan 18, 2006 10:34 pm

Yeah me 2....
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Postby Bee Gees Fan » Sat Jan 21, 2006 12:37 am

I see what you mean, Shoryuken. Suicide can definitely be construed as selfish, and it's easy to see why. It's just in looking at it from the depressed person's point of view...it makes me feel sorry for them.

I think at this point in time, I'd say I agree that people should have the right to take their lives in they really want to die, but then again, if anyone close to me were to do it, I might change my mind. I think it's one of those issues that you can't really fully make your mind up on unless it directly affects you in some way.
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Postby Hector » Sat Jan 21, 2006 1:03 am

I think it not being allowed stems from murder being a sin, and its still technically murder. Apart from maybe reasons that Shoryuken hinted at, I'm against it. It shouldn't be encouraged. I know of a few who attempted it in their teens but are alive and happy now.

Perpsective always sways ones judgement.
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Postby Bee Gees Fan » Sat Jan 21, 2006 1:22 am

You raise some good points, Hector, and I can see where you're coming from. I just want to ask, though: what do you mean when you say suicide is technically murder? Sorry to ask you about that, but I've always viewed murder as just a person taking someone else's life (the use of the word "just" makes it sound an insignificant act, I know, that's not what I'm intending to say.) I just don't understand how suicide is technically murder, since it's the person making their own decision to die - murder, to me, is someone else coming and killing them, usually when they don't want to die and have no intention of dying at that particular time.

Then again, I guess if you define the word "murder" as "killing something/somebody", then you could say that somebody who commits suicide has "murdered themselves." I can understand that, but murder gives suicide a more "evil" feel, at least to me, when I don't think it's an evil act - it's more of a desperate act, in my opinion, by depressed people who are in need of help, but don't see any other way out of their misery other than to die. :(
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Postby Texeattle » Sat Jan 21, 2006 5:26 am

I believe that my life is mine and mine only. It is a domain in which no one else resides, nor ever will but me.

People should be allowed to take their own life if they want. There should never be anyone else's say in the matter. I should be allowed to die at any time, for any reason if I so choose.

Religious types say it's sinful, but by what law am I required to practice someone else's religion? The consequences incurred from my death will be my own and no one else's.

I'm not saying that killing one's self is always a bright idea, and granted many times the pertetrator would most likely regret the action later. BUT the idea that someone else has the right to tell me that I am not allowed to die (if I choose) is infuriating.
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Postby Bee Gees Fan » Sat Jan 21, 2006 1:33 pm

I think I would agree with your views, Texeattle - at this point, anyway. Not all religious people think suicide is sinful, though - I'm a Christian, but as of now I think people should have the right to end their own life.

Like you, though, I am not encouraging suicide. I think it would be a good idea for suicidal people to try to get some help and see if they can overcome their depression. But if they really feel they want to die, then I don't think they should be critcised for taking their lives.
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Postby Hector » Sat Jan 21, 2006 10:10 pm

BGF said:
"what do you mean when you say suicide is technically murder? Sorry to ask you about that, but I've always viewed murder as just a person taking someone else's life (the use of the word "just" makes it sound an insignificant act, I know, that's not what I'm intending to say.) I just don't understand how suicide is technically murder, since it's the person making their own decision to die - murder, to me, is someone else coming and killing them, usually when they don't want to die and have no intention of dying at that particular time."

Someone in a position of authority told me it was, it made sense at the time. I'd have to do a dictionary check on the exact definition of 'murder' to know for sure if it can be applied to suicide. I think the theory is, that: in the eyes of the law, when you're are taking a life that doesn't need to be taken -even if it's your own- its muder. But, I am unsure. I'm someone who still thinks that there is a difference between 'killing someone' and 'murdering someone'. For me killing someone can be - in self diffence, a war, an accident etc.

On the whole, I'm against the idea of eutopian societies and governments taking away certain freedoms. I think people are born with the right to be wrong and make mistakes. BUT I find it to extremely encouraging when a society says 'suicide is wrong'. To me its saying: there is nothing that is too big and, no matter what, there is always someone there to help. For me, its the right attitude for communities to adopt.

By the way I thought this was a terrible idea for topic, but is actually turning out to be quite tastey.
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Postby dorianblue » Sun Jan 22, 2006 5:05 pm

I think it's a misconception that those who take their own lives are acting selfishly. Sometimes they act out of desperation - e.g. they're not in their usual, sound frame of mind - and other times they actually think they're doing the world a favour by taking themselves out of it. It's a very complex and painful issue and it's not accurate or helpful to suggest that they think along the lines of "This is what I want to do, so screw everyone else."

I disagree, though, that a societal condemnation of suicide is going to help matters. If someone is suicidal, but out of moral guilt doesn't actually do it, then nothing is achieved: they'll still feel suicidal. IMO there needs to be better support systems to ease people out of the idea of suicide as a solution and help them into a more positive frame of mind, as well as closer vigilance of certain groups like young men. What's needed is more openness and dialogue on the subject, not just a general consensus that it's 'wrong.'
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Postby Bee Gees Fan » Sun Jan 22, 2006 9:20 pm

dorianblue wrote:I think it's a misconception that those who take their own lives are acting selfishly. Sometimes they act out of desperation - e.g. they're not in their usual, sound frame of mind - and other times they actually think they're doing the world a favour by taking themselves out of it.


Yes, I was thinking along those lines. I can see why people might see it as selfish - in the case of murderers who commit suicide, it can be seen as the easy way out, and it's probably horrible for the family of the victim, or victims.

But with those who commit suicide because they're severely depressed or, as you said, their state of mind is not right - I was wondering, can quite the same rules/emotions be applied to them? Can an insane person act truly selfishly? Like you, Dorian, I don't think it would be fair to be angry towards the suicidal person themselves.
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Postby Anonymouse » Mon Jan 23, 2006 9:53 am

Bee Gees Fan wrote:But with those who commit suicide because they're severely depressed or, as you said, their state of mind is not right - I was wondering, can quite the same rules/emotions be applied to them? Can an insane person act truly selfishly? Like you, Dorian, I don't think it would be fair to be angry towards the suicidal person themselves.

Please don't say that someone who is depressed is insane. They are not. They're depressed. Their brains are simply not functioning correctly chemically. The vast majority of people who are mentally ill are not insane. They have an illness of the brain. Most of these illnesses can be treated very effectively.

I'm sure you didn't mean it that way but it's one of the reasons people don't seek treatment for their mental illness, they are too ashamed to seek treatment because they're afraid they will be called crazy or insane.

I know because I had been depressed a long time. It's hell. I'm now taking medication that's making a big difference. I finally feel like doing things that I haven't done in years. I finally don't feel the extreme anger that I felt for so long. I no longer wish I could lay down and go to sleep and never wake up again. But I still cry over the years I lost and will never get back.

I did think about suicide. I had sleeping pills and could have done it. The only thing that stopped me was knowing how much it would hurt my mother. Having been there I can understand why some people would kill themselves. And no, there's nothing selfish about it. You simply want the pain to stop.

I wish there wasn't such a stigma attached to mental illness. Why do some people think that the brain is somehow not connected to the body? It's OK for the rest of your body to be sick, go to the doctor and get it treated, but if your mind is sick you're just crazy.

I really feel for the people who didn't make it. The ones who thought it was hopeless and that no one cared. I'm a Christian too Bee Gees Fan and I don't believe for one second that God would condemn a person who took their own life because they were mentally ill. I rather think He would be asking the people who say it's a sin why they didn't help those people more instead of saying they were going to hell.
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Postby Hector » Mon Jan 23, 2006 1:27 pm

So, Anonymouse from your point of view, ignoring any religeous implications, would you say that its a good thing for sucicide to be against the law?
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Postby Stratman » Mon Jan 23, 2006 4:22 pm

What always bothers me is that people always say the suicide victim must have been drugged up.
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Postby Bee Gees Fan » Mon Jan 23, 2006 6:33 pm

Anonymouse wrote:I'm sure you didn't mean it that way


I certainly didn't. You have my sympathies, Anonymouse. I know that many depressed people are not insane, as it were, but some people who commit suicide probably are...maybe someone severely schizophrenic could be called "insane"?

I have a great deal of sympathy for mentally ill people. Unfortunately, I admit I sometimes romanticize mental illness a little (I know I shouldn't do this, and I don't always do it, but I sometimes think of it in the manner of romantic picture of the tortured genius who escapes reality by getting into this wonderful world of madness.) I know mental illnesses are horrible things, and not romantic at all (although I hear some parts of mental illnesses can be pleasant.) I think it'd be interesting to meet a mentally ill person. They all seemed very sweet in "One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest"; have you seen that film, Anonymouse?

Over Christmas, I was wondering what Christmas was like for patients in psychiatric hospitals. When I'm older, I want to try and go to a psychiatric hospital for a while on Christmas Day and give the patients a party - I'll play some good Bee Gees songs to them - have them dancing to "Jive Talking", "Staying Alive" and "Night Fever." I'd just like to cheer them all up for a while.

But yes, mental illnesses are things I'm interested in. I don't think there's anything wrong with a small amount of craziness - what I call "Doc Brown craziness." Hearing somebody had a mental illness would probably just make me all the more interested in them and I'd probably be anxious to meet them.
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Postby Anonymouse » Tue Jan 24, 2006 3:57 am

Hector wrote:So, Anonymouse from your point of view, ignoring any religeous implications, would you say that its a good thing for sucicide to be against the law?

I really don't care one way or the other. If someone wants to kill themself and are depressed enough to do it the last thing they'll be worrying about is if it's against the law. If the politicians want to really help they'd spend more on health care but it's easier to make suicide against the law than to try to help the people who feel suicidal.
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Postby Anonymouse » Tue Jan 24, 2006 4:11 am

Bee Gees Fan wrote:
Anonymouse wrote:I'm sure you didn't mean it that way


I certainly didn't. You have my sympathies, Anonymouse. I know that many depressed people are not insane, as it were, but some people who commit suicide probably are...maybe someone severely schizophrenic could be called "insane"?

Yes there are people who are insane. But even if someone kills themselves because of depression I wouldn't say they are insane. I would say I wish you could know what it's like but I really hope you never know. It's painful, mentally and physically. And finally if you can't get help you just want it to stop. It's just such a sad thing that so many people suffer who could be helped.

I have a great deal of sympathy for mentally ill people. Unfortunately, I admit I sometimes romanticize mental illness a little (I know I shouldn't do this, and I don't always do it, but I sometimes think of it in the manner of romantic picture of the tortured genius who escapes reality by getting into this wonderful world of madness.) I know mental illnesses are horrible things, and not romantic at all (although I hear some parts of mental illnesses can be pleasant.) I think it'd be interesting to meet a mentally ill person. They all seemed very sweet in "One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest"; have you seen that film, Anonymouse?

I haven't seen the whole movie but I do know what you're talking about. And I can understand romanticizing mental illness. But I always think of Van Gogh and wonder what amazing pieces of art we never got to see because of his problems. It's a misconception that mental illness makes someone a better artist or writer or whatever. They've just managed to do those things in spite of their illness not because of it.

Over Christmas, I was wondering what Christmas was like for patients in psychiatric hospitals. When I'm older, I want to try and go to a psychiatric hospital for a while on Christmas Day and give the patients a party - I'll play some good Bee Gees songs to them - have them dancing to "Jive Talking", "Staying Alive" and "Night Fever." I'd just like to cheer them all up for a while.

That would be a very nice thing to do. Maybe you should consider working in some way to help mentally ill people. They are just people like anyone else. It's a shame that sometimes they are treated as though they were contagious and the "crazy" might rub off.

But yes, mental illnesses are things I'm interested in. I don't think there's anything wrong with a small amount of craziness - what I call "Doc Brown craziness." Hearing somebody had a mental illness would probably just make me all the more interested in them and I'd probably be anxious to meet them.

The craziness you're in control of is fine. I have some of that myself. :wink: But I prefer to do without the depression.
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Postby Frasier Crane » Wed Feb 22, 2006 2:22 am

Suicide sux
So it wouldnt matter if it was called the Eddie Eddieman foundation as long as there was fancy food on silver platters!
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Postby Legolas » Sat Mar 25, 2006 1:34 am

You know what? If someone wants to kill themselves, seriously, they will succeed. And they will achieve what they were after. Peace, quietness, etc. A suicide survivor was never serious in the first place. Even if they get found, they would try again. But if it was a serious attempt, they would take steps not to get found in the first place. Just remember, a suicide that is meant, always succeeds. Not that the people who have the 'cry for help' dont actually need the help! Always listen if a friend confides those feelings to you. Despair is a terrible thing to go through alone.
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Re: What do you think of suicide?

Postby tenpercenter » Sun Jun 12, 2011 11:55 am

i think that each life has value and that everyone is in charge of theirs
but i think the most scary thing to others looking onto to suicide victims is what a terrible mind state you would have to be in to do it

very scary
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Re: What do you think of suicide?

Postby Dorset Girl » Sun Jun 12, 2011 12:01 pm

Without having looked, I'm betting BGF started this thread...
I know they're only moments... but that's all life is - just a bunch of moments. Molly, in 'Life Stinks'
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Re: What do you think of suicide?

Postby insaneasperger » Sun Jun 12, 2011 1:21 pm

I think that suicide is painless, brings on many changes, and I can take or leave if I choose.....
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Re: What do you think of suicide?

Postby Dorset Girl » Sun Jun 12, 2011 1:26 pm

insaneasperger wrote:I think that suicide is painless, brings on many changes, and I can take or leave if I choose.....


:lol:
I know they're only moments... but that's all life is - just a bunch of moments. Molly, in 'Life Stinks'
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Re: What do you think of suicide?

Postby insaneasperger » Sun Jun 12, 2011 2:36 pm

Dorset Girl wrote:
insaneasperger wrote:I think that suicide is painless, brings on many changes, and I can take or leave if I choose.....


:lol:



thanks! I have very strange thoughts on suicide and would prob cause some disagreements if I actually posted my thoughts on it. So will stick to songs :D 8-)
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