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The Footy Thread!

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Re: The Footy Thread!

Postby Moon-Crane » Mon Jul 02, 2012 11:32 am

Mr Blue Sky wrote:
Hans the German Butler wrote:Spain - I'm fairly speechless at how good that performance was. Where was that level of incisiveness to go along with all the pretty passing during the rest of the tournament?

Hard luck on Italy - but could anyone have lived with Spain on that form?


I know, I think this is why they've suffered a bit of a backlash. We all know those players are capable of champagne football so where has it been all tournament? Still, they have a winning first mentality and you can't criticise them for that - I certainly wouldn't mind England boring their way to tournament win after tournament win.

The scary thing is 3/4 of that team can still be playing in 8 years' time :shock:

Funny that Torres won the golden boot - he's hardly played!


Spain finally played the way we all know they can - during the first half anyway. I hope some of the public criticism stung them into action. Good work anyway. Italy couldn't live with them.

The pundits were all being their usual foolish selves by sneering about how anybody could call Spain boring when they play like that. The whole point, you idiotic cocks, was that Spain weren't at all playing like that throughout the tournament. They were passing for the sake of passing with no urgency to attack and shoot when the opportunity arose. I'd probably call it frustrating more than boring, but it undoubtedly made for some dour spectacles - and you can't use the defensiveness of the opposition as an excuse. The final, thankfully, didn't fall into that trap.
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Re: The Footy Thread!

Postby Mr Blue Sky » Mon Jul 02, 2012 11:49 am

Heh, I know. Didn't Vicente del Bosque say anyone who criticised Spain didn't understand football? That'll be Mourinho and Wenger then :lol:

As you say, the whole point was that they could have won the tournament playing champagne fotball as they did in the first half last night, but instead chose a more reductive style which almost saw them go out against Portugal. Last night showed how their 'tika taka' style can be so devastating.

I'm looking forward to Liverpool playing that exact same way under Brendan Rodgers :wink:
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Re: The Footy Thread!

Postby Moon-Crane » Mon Jul 02, 2012 11:57 am

I'd take England playing that boring way as the next step in their progression, if it were possible. Alas, it's pie in the sky to imagine an England team ever passing the ball that well.

I do, however, believe we could play like a Germany, Italy or Portugal.
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Re: The Footy Thread!

Postby Moon-Crane » Mon Jul 02, 2012 11:58 am

:lol: missed your Rodgers line on the end.
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Re: The Footy Thread!

Postby Mr Blue Sky » Mon Jul 02, 2012 6:37 pm

Moon-Crane wrote:I'd take England playing that boring way as the next step in their progression, if it were possible. Alas, it's pie in the sky to imagine an England team ever passing the ball that well.

I do, however, believe we could play like a Germany, Italy or Portugal.


Italy or Portugal yes, but I fear we're a way behind the Germans at this point in time.

For the England team to be successful we need a short term and long term strategy. in the short term we simply play less games, have a winter break and continue to play a high energy 'premiership' style with the best XI Englishmen we have at our disposal. In the long term we need to ban parents from attending their kids football matches shouting unhelpful 'advice' from the sidelines and do away wih competetive league tables until the kids are in their early teens. We can then develop a coaching strategy that is skills rather than results based. As they get older the result matters more and more but a 7 year old shouldn't be hoofing long balls up front to get a desperate last minute winner in some meaningless 'league'. Also all football coaches/sports teachers at schools should be vetted by the FA and be awarded some kind of certificate to prove they understand and buy into a skills-based coaching philosophy.

I've thought for a long tie that the Gerrards and Beckhams of this world have succeeded despite our coaching system rather than because of it. Look at the talent a country like Holland produces with a similar population to that of Scotland. That HAS to be down to the way kids are coached from a young age.

Btw, what a ridiculous decision of Pearce's to leave Beckham out of the Olympics team. Does he actually think people are going to care about this tournament? If Beckham was playing I'd be likely to tune in out of interest but as it's going to run alongside next season's Premiership campaign and all he'll be fielding are a bunch of little known U21s I couldn't give two shits about it. He's really misjudged the public mood with that decision.
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Re: The Footy Thread!

Postby Hans the German Butler » Mon Jul 02, 2012 7:56 pm

Mr Blue Sky wrote:Btw, what a ridiculous decision of Pearce's to leave Beckham out of the Olympics team. Does he actually think people are going to care about this tournament? If Beckham was playing I'd be likely to tune in out of interest but as it's going to run alongside next season's Premiership campaign and all he'll be fielding are a bunch of little known U21s I couldn't give two shits about it. He's really misjudged the public mood with that decision.


I think it's rooted in the same sort of thinking that saw him pick Scott Parker as his England captain. He so desperately wants to be seen as a forward thinker, his own man and certainly not dictated to by the media that he makes some bizarre decisions; all in the vain hope that he might actually get a meaningful job in football. Sorry Psycho, heart and guts might have been enough to make it in England as a player in your time but it takes more than that to stand a chance as a top coach in the modern game.

Incidentally did anyone see the piece in today's Metro online about the Hungarian TV station that recreated the Spain/Italy clash using bikini models? Exploitative? You bet. Many gratuitous shots of bouncing breasts and arses hanging out of amazingly short shorts? Check. Phwoarr!
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Re: The Footy Thread!

Postby Moon-Crane » Mon Jul 02, 2012 8:15 pm

Mr Blue Sky wrote: In the long term we need to ban parents from attending their kids football matches shouting unhelpful 'advice' from the sidelines and do away wih competetive league tables until the kids are in their early teens.

Completely agree. Two of the most loathsome things in children's football.
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Re: The Footy Thread!

Postby Moon-Crane » Mon Jul 02, 2012 8:23 pm

Hans the German Butler wrote:
Mr Blue Sky wrote:Btw, what a ridiculous decision of Pearce's to leave Beckham out of the Olympics team. Does he actually think people are going to care about this tournament? If Beckham was playing I'd be likely to tune in out of interest but as it's going to run alongside next season's Premiership campaign and all he'll be fielding are a bunch of little known U21s I couldn't give two shits about it. He's really misjudged the public mood with that decision.


I think it's rooted in the same sort of thinking that saw him pick Scott Parker as his England captain. He so desperately wants to be seen as a forward thinker, his own man and certainly not dictated to by the media that he makes some bizarre decisions; all in the vain hope that he might actually get a meaningful job in football. Sorry Psycho, heart and guts might have been enough to make it in England as a player in your time but it takes more than that to stand a chance as a top coach in the modern game.

Incidentally did anyone see the piece in today's Metro online about the Hungarian TV station that recreated the Spain/Italy clash using bikini models? Exploitative? You bet. Many gratuitous shots of bouncing breasts and arses hanging out of amazingly short shorts? Check. Phwoarr!


Yep. I always liked Pearce as a player - just as i always liked Platini as a player. Their post-player roles in the game have left me cold to their involvement. It seems a sure thing that Pearce will be out of the England set up on his ear now - or at least it should be.

Nobody cares about football being in the Olympics - just like tennis, basketball, and a couple of others shouldn't be in there. Both the GB men's and women's managers have dropped a bollock in not choosing players from all the home nations and treating it as the exhibition event it should be. They're off their trees if they believe anyone's going to proclaim them heroes for treating it as a serious Olympic sport and trying to come away with a gold. Beckham was guaranteed to bring an audience, just as picking some welsh players in the women's team may have put some local bums on seats for the games held in Wales.
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Re: The Footy Thread!

Postby Hans the German Butler » Mon Jul 02, 2012 8:47 pm

Moon-Crane wrote:Yep. I always liked Pearce as a player - just as i always liked Platini as a player. Their post-player roles in the game have left me cold to their involvement. It seems a sure thing that Pearce will be out of the England set up on his ear now - or at least it should be.

Nobody cares about football being in the Olympics - just like tennis, basketball, and a couple of others shouldn't be in there. Both the GB men's and women's managers have dropped a bollock in not choosing players from all the home nations and treating it as the exhibition event it should be. They're off their trees if they believe anyone's going to proclaim them heroes for treating it as a serious Olympic sport and trying to come away with a gold. Beckham was guaranteed to bring an audience, just as picking some welsh players in the women's team may have put some local bums on seats for the games held in Wales.


I can't see how he can even walk himself back from this one now. He's quoted today (Daily Mirror) as saying the reason he picked others ahead of Beckham was based on footballing ability?!? Does he mean it wouldn't be fair to pick a player who would be the best passer in the tournament? Not within the Olympic spirit to pick a multiple Premier League winner, Champions League winner and former captain of England?

A guy I work with is gutted because he bought tickets to watch the Olympic football, at fairly extortionate prices, in the belief that Beckham would be playing. He wanted to take his two young sons who'd never seen Beckham play before. How many times will that story have been replicated?
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Re: The Footy Thread!

Postby Moon-Crane » Thu Jul 05, 2012 12:31 am

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Re: The Footy Thread!

Postby Mr Blue Sky » Tue Jul 10, 2012 8:42 pm

Can't say I'm too impressed with the way Rodgers has gone about this Andy Carroll situation. When Rodgers was first appointed I thought an interesting situation would develop with Carroll as he so obviously isn't the type of player Rodgers usually goes for. However, he is one of our most expensive assets and without Man City/Chelsea money to throw around I thought he'd have to adapt his system to give the bloke a chance, especially considering his late season and England form. What I didn't expect was for him to come out and publically declare he has no use for Carroll and will even consider a loan arrangement to get him off the books.

I'm a bit concerned to be honest. This is not how the Liverpool I grew up with used to conduct their business.
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Re: The Footy Thread!

Postby Hans the German Butler » Tue Jul 10, 2012 9:38 pm

Mr Blue Sky wrote:Can't say I'm too impressed with the way Rodgers has gone about this Andy Carroll situation. When Rodgers was first appointed I thought an interesting situation would develop with Carroll as he so obviously isn't the type of player Rodgers usually goes for. However, he is one of our most expensive assets and without Man City/Chelsea money to throw around I thought he'd have to adapt his system to give the bloke a chance, especially considering his late season and England form. What I didn't expect was for him to come out and publically declare he has no use for Carroll and will even consider a loan arrangement to get him off the books.

I'm a bit concerned to be honest. This is not how the Liverpool I grew up with used to conduct their business.


I'm not sure that a lot of this is not media talk. I have a club membership so I was able to view the entire unedited press conference. He was asked about Carroll going to AC Milan on loan. His response was that there had been no contact but that he's not surprised if there is interest because Carroll is a very good young player. He then went on to say that he had spoken to Carroll whilst on his holidays about plans etc. and that like everyone else in the team he will have to assess not just his ability but his mentality regarding playing in the way Rodgers wants. He refused to rule out his moving on purely on the basis that what is true today can change in due course for any number of reasons so he didn't want to make a statement today that would make him a liar in a few weeks time but that as things stand Andy Carroll is very much a Liverpool player.

The papers today are full of twists on virtually everything he said in the press conference. The big disappointment I will have is if the exciting signing due by the end of this week turns out to be Clint Dempsey. I know he had a good last season but I think I would be more excited by signing Clint Eastwood.
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Re: The Footy Thread!

Postby Mr Blue Sky » Tue Jul 10, 2012 9:48 pm

Hans the German Butler wrote:I'm not sure that a lot of this is not media talk. I have a club membership so I was able to view the entire unedited press conference. He was asked about Carroll going to AC Milan on loan. His response was that there had been no contact but that he's not surprised if there is interest because Carroll is a very good young player. He then went on to say that he had spoken to Carroll whilst on his holidays about plans etc. and that like everyone else in the team he will have to assess not just his ability but his mentality regarding playing in the way Rodgers wants. He refused to rule out his moving on purely on the basis that what is true today can change in due course for any number of reasons so he didn't want to make a statement today that would make him a liar in a few weeks time but that as things stand Andy Carroll is very much a Liverpool player.


I saw the same Rodgers quotes on the Beeb website but my reaction was 'why are you even having a discussion about this?' Do you think he'd have 'refused to rule out' Suarez going out on loan? To me he was giving a very clear signal to other clubs that Andy Carroll was up for grabs and if they didn't want to sign him outright they could take him on loan.

The papers today are full of twists on virtually everything he said in the press conference. The big disappointment I will have is if the exciting signing due by the end of this week turns out to be Clint Dempsey. I know he had a good last season but I think I would be more excited by signing Clint Eastwood.


I wouldn't say no to Clint. He'd definitely get us goals from midfield. I'll be disappointed if the 'big signing' is Borini - not because I wouldn't want to have him, I think he's a good prospect, but I'm hoping for someone proven who'll improve us straight away.
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Re: The Footy Thread!

Postby Hans the German Butler » Tue Jul 10, 2012 10:39 pm

Mr Blue Sky wrote:I saw the same Rodgers quotes on the Beeb website but my reaction was 'why are you even having a discussion about this?' Do you think he'd have 'refused to rule out' Suarez going out on loan? To me he was giving a very clear signal to other clubs that Andy Carroll was up for grabs and if they didn't want to sign him outright they could take him on loan.

The papers today are full of twists on virtually everything he said in the press conference. The big disappointment I will have is if the exciting signing due by the end of this week turns out to be Clint Dempsey. I know he had a good last season but I think I would be more excited by signing Clint Eastwood.


I wouldn't say no to Clint. He'd definitely get us goals from midfield. I'll be disappointed if the 'big signing' is Borini - not because I wouldn't want to have him, I think he's a good prospect, but I'm hoping for someone proven who'll improve us straight away.


To be fair he was only asked about Carroll because of the speculation - and noises coming from Italy, bizarrely from the son of Silvio Berlusconi, about Carroll going to Milan. Had there been speculation about Suarez I'm not sure he wouldn't have fielded it the same way. Ultimately he's not the only person making the decisions and if he'd been asked about the possibility of Suarez going to Juventus or Real Madrid he would have had to say there's been no contact yet but you cannot rule it out. At the end of the day, if someone comes in with a £50m+ offer for Suarez, I think he's going whether Rodgers likes it or not and Rodgers knows that. I think with the media faux pas of the previous regime he's being overly cautious about the print media in particular hoisting him by his own petard so he's going out of his way to not lie to them whilst at the same time withholding information. The only issue is that he didn't say "I don't want Andy to go anywhere, he's going to be a big star and he needs time to become the player we all know he can be." But if he says that and Carroll subsequently goes he gets criticised because he doesn't have control.

I don't think Dempsey or Borini would be bad additions. I think Dempsey would be a good addition to play behind the main striker and Borini looks tidy. I would just hate the idea that our stock has fallen so much that one of those two could be considered a big signing to get the fans excited.
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Re: The Footy Thread!

Postby Mr Blue Sky » Wed Jul 11, 2012 5:19 am

Hans the German Butler wrote:To be fair he was only asked about Carroll because of the speculation - and noises coming from Italy, bizarrely from the son of Silvio Berlusconi, about Carroll going to Milan. Had there been speculation about Suarez I'm not sure he wouldn't have fielded it the same way. Ultimately he's not the only person making the decisions and if he'd been asked about the possibility of Suarez going to Juventus or Real Madrid he would have had to say there's been no contact yet but you cannot rule it out. At the end of the day, if someone comes in with a £50m+ offer for Suarez, I think he's going whether Rodgers likes it or not and Rodgers knows that. I think with the media faux pas of the previous regime he's being overly cautious about the print media in particular hoisting him by his own petard so he's going out of his way to not lie to them whilst at the same time withholding information. The only issue is that he didn't say "I don't want Andy to go anywhere, he's going to be a big star and he needs time to become the player we all know he can be." But if he says that and Carroll subsequently goes he gets criticised because he doesn't have control.


To be honest I don't really mind shipping out Carroll too much - I never thought he was a Liverpool player and he obviously doesn't fit in with the style of football Rodgers wants to play. I think I'm just a bit bothered by the way it's being reported but we'll have to agree to differ on Rodgers' true intentions when he addressed the media questions.

I don't think Dempsey or Borini would be bad additions. I think Dempsey would be a good addition to play behind the main striker and Borini looks tidy. I would just hate the idea that our stock has fallen so much that one of those two could be considered a big signing to get the fans excited.


I know what you mean. We're obviously going to have to sign a few level 2 players to get us back up in contention for the level 1 players (i.e. a top 4 finish). We have fallen a long way back unfortunately but I don't think our task is insurmountable. Arsenal fans will be very worried at RVP's seemingly imminent departure and Spurs will be an unknown quantity under AVB. I'd expect Chelsea to at least get back into the top 3 once they've finished spending this window but that 4th spot is very much up for grabs I reckon.
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Re: The Footy Thread!

Postby Moon-Crane » Wed Jul 11, 2012 3:20 pm

It's totally unlikely, but I'd love to see Carroll go to a place like Milan - a la Mark Hateley. I'd hope to god it could have a similar effect on his all round game. He could easily be a Hateley except i have doubts whether he would put in the Hateley amount of work needed to fulfill his potential.

I really hope he doesn't end up being dumped at West Ham.
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Re: The Footy Thread!

Postby Moon-Crane » Thu Jul 12, 2012 3:40 pm

More FIFA dodgy dealings coming to light. That carpet's becoming a health and safety nightmare because of all the shite being swept under it.
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Re: The Footy Thread!

Postby Mr Blue Sky » Fri Jul 13, 2012 1:36 pm

Moon-Crane wrote:More FIFA dodgy dealings coming to light. That carpet's becoming a health and safety nightmare because of all the shite being swept under it.


:lol:

I'm amazed Sepp Blatter seems to have been completely aware of this bribe culture at FIFA aren't you, especially after his crusader-like ousting of the currupt Mohamed bin Hammam from FIFA's Presidential election last year. That could almost be seen as hypocritical couldn't it... :wink:
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Re: The Footy Thread!

Postby Moon-Crane » Fri Jul 13, 2012 1:58 pm

Mr Blue Sky wrote:I'm amazed Sepp Blatter seems to have been completely aware of this bribe culture at FIFA aren't you, especially after his crusader-like ousting of the currupt Mohamed bin Hammam from FIFA's Presidential election last year. That could almost be seen as hypocritical couldn't it... :wink:


:lol:

You could have blown me down with a feather when i first heard this news break. Shocked and stunned i was. Who could ever have foreseen such things go on amongst a fine and upstanding organisation. They've always appeared so straight and above board.

It's almost as if there's a crazy implication that they bring the game into disrepute. Next there'll be a crazy notion that FIFA should be completely disbanded to make way for a new governing body rebuilt from scratch.

I'm certain, though, that they can explain all in a reasonable way, have a meeting, give out a press release, and set our minds at ease regarding their competence. No need for any changes here. No siree.
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Re: The Footy Thread!

Postby Moon-Crane » Fri Jul 13, 2012 2:33 pm

Sky Sports News must be loving today.

Terry = not guilty = Anton Ferdinand's career probably over.

Rangers to go into the 3rd division = Celtic as Scottish champions for at least the next three years. Can't see that being the final word on it, like.
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Re: The Footy Thread!

Postby Mr Blue Sky » Fri Jul 13, 2012 5:45 pm

Moon-Crane wrote:Sky Sports News must be loving today.

Terry = not guilty = Anton Ferdinand's career probably over.

Rangers to go into the 3rd division = Celtic as Scottish champions for at least the next three years. Can't see that being the final word on it, like.


Terry and his lawyer must be feeling very pleased with themselves right now. Perhaps they'll even send a celebratory case of Armand de Brignac to Ashley Cole's head...

As for Rangers I'm pleased from a purists' point of view that the same rules were applied to Rangers that would have applied to anyone else but that's an easy thing to say when it's not your club getting triple relegated. The fans must be going through agony.
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Re: The Footy Thread!

Postby Hans the German Butler » Fri Jul 13, 2012 7:57 pm

The thing that strikes me about the Terry case is that there is such a huge difference between 'not guilty' and 'innocent'. The magistrate made it clear that there wasn't sufficient evidence to deliver a guilty verdict but there was none of the "Mr. Terry leaves without a stain on his character" nonsense. The written verdict even says that while he found evidence from pretty much everyone except Ashley Cole to be credible he found Terry's version of events unlikely - however the lack of clear evidence prevented any other verdict. I have often wondered whether we should introduce the facility from Scottish law to deliver a verdict of 'not proven'. It would at least give a better impression than the idea that he didn't do anything wrong.

The problem I see now for the FA is if they ignore the court verdict they'll be leaving themselves open to criticism; but at the same time, as Suarez found out, the FA can convict on 'balance of probabilities' rather than having to prove the case 'beyond reasonable doubt'.

On the Rangers issue, there is an SPL AGM this weekend so they could even motion for another vote to accept the Rangers Newco into the SPL, now that the 32 SFL clubs have gone against what they were basically instructed to do by the SPL and SFA and admit them to division 1. The SPL clubs wanted to punish them but only for 1 year - get them back up quickly so the revenues are only reduced for a short period of time while some kind of justice is seen to be done.

I feel immensely sorry for Rangers fans, who are the real victims in all of this. Some conman comes along and offers a deal to a chairman (Sir David Murray) who's desperate to get out because he's been subsidising the club out of his own money for years; because of the desperation, due diligence is not conducted and said Shyster sinks the club financially with the contingent effects that are now being experienced. As Charles Green said today, no one currrently at the club is responsible for the position they're in. And even the most hard-hearted of Celtic fans can see the financial implications of losing the revenue Rangers bring to the SPL.
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Re: The Footy Thread!

Postby Moon-Crane » Fri Jul 13, 2012 8:45 pm

Hans the German Butler wrote:I feel immensely sorry for Rangers fans, who are the real victims in all of this.


Yep. It's always the fans that get shafted by rich people treating clubs as their personal plaything/profit opportunity. Hell, not even rich people if they have the connections to get the club to mortgage itself to pay for the lending to finance it's own purchase.
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Re: The Footy Thread!

Postby Moon-Crane » Thu Jul 26, 2012 10:46 pm

Anyone watched the Olympics football so far? I'd say the GB team performed exactly as i'd expect from a Pearce team. Not sure how Bellamy didn't get a penalty when he was assaulted on the edge of the box while we were leading 1-0, but, crass tackles aside, i couldn't really deny that Senegal deserved a point out of the game.

Funny how Pearce is going on about how seriously he's taking this job, and doing everything he can to win the gold medal. If the GB administrators had been that serious about wanting to win the football gold i wouldn't have thought Pearce would be anywhere near first choice to lead the team?
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Re: The Footy Thread!

Postby Hans the German Butler » Fri Jul 27, 2012 1:33 pm

Moon-Crane wrote:Anyone watched the Olympics football so far? I'd say the GB team performed exactly as i'd expect from a Pearce team. Not sure how Bellamy didn't get a penalty when he was assaulted on the edge of the box while we were leading 1-0, but, crass tackles aside, i couldn't really deny that Senegal deserved a point out of the game.

Funny how Pearce is going on about how seriously he's taking this job, and doing everything he can to win the gold medal. If the GB administrators had been that serious about wanting to win the football gold i wouldn't have thought Pearce would be anywhere near first choice to lead the team?


I didn't see the game because I had to go out but I saw some of the highlights later. The Senegalese seemed to be operating on the basis that if they cripple as many Team GB players as possible that would give them a medal. Like you, I'm bemused at why Pearce was selected. I can totally understand Hope Powell being selected as coach of the women's team because she's got pedigree in the women's game. I fail to understand what Pearce has done in his managerial career to justify his Team GB role - or even for him to seriously believe he stood a chance of managing England at Euro 2012.
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