Hester Crane

[diligohominum80]

Ok, I grew up watching "Frasier" here in the States and I am nearly obsessed with it; it's my go to happy show. I had seen a few episodes of "Cheers", but I've never really been a fan; however, after reading a few posts on here I decided to watch the Hester Crane episode from "Cheers" in season 3 titled "Diane Meets Mom". Wow, I have always loved Hester as portrayed by Rita Wilson in "Frasier" but I saw a different point of view of her in "Cheers" portrayed by Nancy Marchland....I wonder what everyone else who has seen both portrayals thinks....any thoughts?

[Patrick]

Well, I saw them both (Cheers first) and that just illustrates the difference between how people, especially people long dead are idealized in the minds of the ones who love them compared to what they really were when they were alive. Martin once said that "Hester would always find something to like about someone no matter how obnoxious they were" and also "That Hester would never have looked down her nose at simple people or make them feel inferior". That's not the accurate phrasing but close enough. Anyway, we saw that she wasn't like that in Cheers. She disliked Diane for no other reason that she was a pseudo-intellectual, the same way Frasier makes fun of someone because "he didn't graduate" from a school "worthy of Harvard". It's the exact snobbish attitude that we see from both. Plus Hester threatened to kill Diane (it was an empty threat but that was scandalous enough regardless) even though Diane was nothing but civil to her. I see that as the difference between reality vs idealized reality. I had a similar feeling of dismay when someone I know described a long dead person I knew as well, as some sort of saint, when I witnessed with my own eyes that person behave in obnoxious and petty manner more than once, in fact I once heard him make scurrilous remarks about someone based solely on his profession, which is the sort of behavior that could drive me to hit someone in the face if I didn't control myself. Anyway to hear that someone talked about like he was some sort paragon of virtue made me think about the things that Martin said about Hester and it also helped me to keep my mouth shut for conviviality's sake.
That proves that Frasier is closer to reality than one might think.

[Forever Jung]

It may be that Hester was perfectly nice to anybody, just as long as they weren't interested in her son.
In the ep with Lilith, Nannette, Diane, and all his other ex's, Hester didn't seem to like any of them.
Although that Hester was a figment of Frasier's imagination, it must have been a pretty accurate picture of how she treated the women in Frasier's life.

[Patrick]

:twisted: It may be that Hester was perfectly nice to anybody, just as long as they weren't interested in her son.
In the ep with Lilith, Nannette, Diane, and all his other ex's, Hester didn't seem to like any of them.
Although that Hester was a figment of Frasier's imagination, it must have been a pretty accurate picture of how she treated the women in Frasier's life.

Except for Claire, in fact all of the women in Frasier's head liked her, which makes him dumping her even more bizarre. I mean if it were real instead of light comedy one could conclude that Frasier is suffering from some sort of acute schizophrenia and that he should be committed, if only for his own good but since it's only comedy then we know that nothing really bad can happen. For example a four star restaurant is completely destroyed, most of the clients could sue him for diverse reasons, like having their car driven through a wall for example. But we know that Frasier's standard of living won't be affected one iota by this financial catastrophe.

[Forever Jung]

But you've also got to consider that all his ex's, and his mother, were all inside Frasier mind. They were not really themselves, and what they said was just what Frasier himself projected onto them.
As Frasier's main issue at the time was why he dumped someone who was perfect for him, it's logical that all the other women would have been asking the same thing.
So although the Hester imagined was nice about Claire, the real Hester might have been a real bitch towards her.

Also, Hester knew those women and had a reason to dislike them.
Claire, on the other hand, was not someone Hester knew, so couldn't really dislike her (the Hester in Frasiers mid that is).
Each one of his ex's was an ex, wehereas Claire was someone who had never regected Frasier and had never broken his heart.

[Frasiertime]

:twisted: But you've also got to consider that all his ex's, and his mother, were all inside Frasier mind. They were not really themselves, and what they said was just what Frasier himself projected onto them.
As Frasier's main issue at the time was why he dumped someone who was perfect for him, it's logical that all the other women would have been asking the same thing.
So although the Hester imagined was nice about Claire, the real Hester might have been a real bitch towards her.

Also, Hester knew those women and had a reason to dislike them.
Claire, on the other hand, was not someone Hester knew, so couldn't really dislike her (the Hester in Frasiers mid that is).
Each one of his ex's was an ex, wehereas Claire was someone who had never regected Frasier and had never broken his heart.

I think you hit it on the head there. Also, I've always felt Hester had her own issues in life and she wasn't level headed all the time. But then, she wouldn't be part of the Crane family if she didn't have some flaws, right?