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How Watchable is Season 11?

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Re: How Watchable is Season 11?

Postby Eddie2012 » Fri Dec 21, 2012 5:21 pm

Yes, after she made the decision. Not just thinking about it, but actually finalizing the deal. I am not saying Frasier should have had an actual say in her decision. But when I, personally, make a life changing decision I will mention this to people who are dear to me beforehand *), to a good friend but especially to someone who has romantic feelings towards me (and I towards him). I would want to see the reaction and, even though the outcome might still be the same, this reaction will tell me how they feel about me more clearly. I would want to know this, so I can a) realize that I still want to go ahead with the initial plan or b) realize that this person is so dear to me too that I might consider alternatives such as still buying the business back but moving it to Seattle/San Francisco or c) allowing this person to make changes himself, i.e. thinking about moving to Chicago as well or happily loosing contact with me. I would find this just fair (plus I am a very practical person :D ). I just think that she raises his hopes under a false pretense. And her waiving a long distance relationship good bye from the word go makes me think she does not have a real interest in him (I would hate a long distance relationship myself, but would not dismiss it first hand and try it out for a limited amount of time if I think it was worth it).
(I hope I am making myself clear - I am drinking red wine while I type :drunken: )

*) She says that she wanted to tell him earlier, but there was never a good time. I my experience there is always time, maybe not a good one but time nonetheless. People are just afraid of the reaction. But whether that shows she had real interest or not I don' know. I hope she had :) .
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Re: How Watchable is Season 11?

Postby CatNamedRudy » Fri Dec 21, 2012 6:24 pm

We'll have to agree to disagree on this. Prior to the night they were together in And Frasier Makes Three they were just friends. (and not even that if you take the angle that he was "just her client") She had no obligation to discuss anything with him. If she should have been talking to anyone about it, it should have been Frank and she wasn't doing that either.
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Re: How Watchable is Season 11?

Postby Eddie2012 » Fri Dec 21, 2012 6:41 pm

I am not talking about 'obligations', just about what I think/hope I would have done, to both a friend or a lover. And if he was 'just her friend' or 'just a client' to her, it makes me question her feelings even more.

CatNamedRudy wrote:If she should have been talking to anyone about it, it should have been Frank and she wasn't doing that either.

Does not make her 'vanishing' act any better though :D

Anyway, in my personal cinema they end up very happy together :)
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Re: How Watchable is Season 11?

Postby Patrick » Fri Dec 21, 2012 6:47 pm

Eddie2012 wrote:I am not talking about 'obligations', just about what I think/hope I would have done, to both a friend or a lover. And if he was 'just her friend' or 'just a client' to her, it makes me question her feelings even more.

CatNamedRudy wrote:If she should have been talking to anyone about it, it should have been Frank and she wasn't doing that either.

Does not make her 'vanishing' act any better though :D

Anyway, in my personal cinema they end up very happy together :)

You know I think she might be the one.*

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Re: How Watchable is Season 11?

Postby DAMN » Sat Dec 22, 2012 12:56 am

Eddie2012 wrote:I don't like 'if she loved him she wouldnt move to Chicago' simply because it sounds too much like little woman follows big man. Frasier's show has come to an end and there is no reason for her to give up herjob, friends and family so he can pursue his dreams. What I would have expected though, whether as friends or potential lovers, is her telling him about her move earlier. And not just presenting him with the facts after raising his hopes, 'oh by the way, I am moving thousands of miles and nope, no long distance relationship either, thank you very much' :bounce: (That's why I said earlier that she doesn't show real interest)

I get what you're saying and I agree but I dont really think Frasier should have caved in.I dont think she's worthy of Frasier.You just said it "There's no reason she should quit her job and Family" so I think she thought that Frasier was not worth it and thus she doesnt really like him as much as Frasier supposedly does her(He gave up his life in Seattle,his family etc.).Also I always thought it was a bitchy move by her leaving and not even clarifying the relationship(as in break-up so Frasier doesnt have to mourn over her).
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Re: How Watchable is Season 11?

Postby DAMN » Sat Dec 22, 2012 1:04 am

Eddie you hit the nail right on the head.I really hate Frasier's Ending on the Finale cuz it does nothing but show that he didnt develop....AT ALL
So this whole BS about how the Characters develop is BS.Only Niles develops I think and Roz too.
It made me sad that Frasier was so desperate to get with someone that he gave up his San Francisco Job offer.And who knows if she wanted to even get back with him or maybe he saw her with another guy when he arrived there.
It's annoying how from Season 5 and on they made him so "miserable" when he had a pretty good life actually.
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Re: How Watchable is Season 11?

Postby CatNamedRudy » Sat Dec 22, 2012 3:49 am

Amazing how two people can watch the same show and see completely opposite things.
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Re: How Watchable is Season 11?

Postby Eddie2012 » Sat Dec 22, 2012 11:46 am

CatNamedRudy wrote:Amazing how two people can watch the same show and see completely opposite things.

Yep, takes you back to the Daphne-Niles-realationship-after-season-seven-discussions, doesn't it :D
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Re: How Watchable is Season 11?

Postby Patrick » Sat Dec 22, 2012 11:55 am

DAMN wrote:...
It made me sad that Frasier was so desperate to get with someone that he gave up his San Francisco Job offer.And who knows if she wanted to even get back with him or maybe he saw her with another guy when he arrived there.
...

I agree, Frasier's got his hopes up before, with catastrophic results at times.
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Re: How Watchable is Season 11?

Postby DAMN » Sat Dec 22, 2012 1:55 pm

Patrick wrote:
DAMN wrote:...
It made me sad that Frasier was so desperate to get with someone that he gave up his San Francisco Job offer.And who knows if she wanted to even get back with him or maybe he saw her with another guy when he arrived there.
...

I agree, Frasier's got his hopes up before, with catastrophic results at times.

Yeah,I've seen many Frasier Fans that argue that the Development of Characters in Frasier is "So Great",but Frasier never seems to learn his lesson cuz the writers are too unimaginative to think of something new and they repeat the same stuff.At one point it became so Predictable...
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Re: How Watchable is Season 11?

Postby DAMN » Sat Dec 22, 2012 2:03 pm

Eddie2012 wrote:
CatNamedRudy wrote:Amazing how two people can watch the same show and see completely opposite things.

Yep, takes you back to the Daphne-Niles-realationship-after-season-seven-discussions, doesn't it :D

The Daphne-Niles Relationship was wrong from the start.It disappointed me when Frasier started catering to the audience.At some point it was Niles bragging all the time about being with Daphne bla bla bla and Frasier just being miserable for the most idiotic reasons and at that point the show became hard to watch...
Also it was never convincing at all.Daphne suddenly falling for him when she found out about Niles liking her...IT DOESN'T WORK THAT WAY,trust me I've experienced it.Frasier really underestimated the audience's intelligence in that scene.Plus Niles isn't convincing either...all the time it looks more like he lusts for her rather then he loves her...he sounds more serious when he's talking about Maris and you can notice that.
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Re: How Watchable is Season 11?

Postby Eddie2012 » Sat Dec 22, 2012 6:13 pm

DAMN wrote:Also it was never convincing at all.Daphne suddenly falling for him when she found out about Niles liking her...IT DOESN'T WORK THAT WAY,trust me I've experienced it.

Totally believable to fall in love with someone you had a platonic friendship with for years. Slightly less believable to fall in love with such someone out of the blue, but hey, why not. But what really bugs me is that she suddenly has these feelings after Frasier specifically told her that Niles is crazy about her :bounce: .
(If I was a spiteful person I could even say she does not realizes unknown feelings, but rather that Niles might better marriage material than Donny. Oh, this really rich, decent man loves me - let's see if I can rustle up some more romantic feelings for him :D . But I am not a spiteful person, I do not see that in Daphne at all, but I can imagine other people might.)
No, the whole business does not sit well with me either. Too sudden, too drastic. If there had at least been a shred of a hint in previous episodes that she might like him as a man - perhaps. But not the way they did it (please no one mention Daphne hates Sherry, I don't take this (wonderful) episode as evidence that she had feelings for Niles, but simply that she was horny beyond redemption, and if another friend/acquaintance had conveniently been around, she might have gone to him).

DAMN wrote: Niles isn't convincing either...all the time it looks more like he lusts for her rather then he loves her...he sounds more serious when he's talking about Maris and you can notice that.

Interesting, never thought about it that way. Something to mull over on the sofa after a festive dinner :) .
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Re: How Watchable is Season 11?

Postby Patrick » Sat Dec 22, 2012 6:32 pm

Something Daphne could have said to Niles which is a recurrent line from a Saturday Night Live character called Simon: "Don't look at me bum! Don't look at me bum! I don't look at your bum, bum-looker!" :lol:
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Re: How Watchable is Season 11?

Postby DAMN » Sat Dec 22, 2012 7:48 pm

Eddie2012 wrote:Totally believable to fall in love with someone you had a platonic friendship with for years. Slightly less believable to fall in love with such someone out of the blue, but hey, why not. But what really bugs me is that she suddenly has these feelings after Frasier specifically told her that Niles is crazy about her :bounce: .
(If I was a spiteful person I could even say she does not realizes unknown feelings, but rather that Niles might better marriage material than Donny. Oh, this really rich, decent man loves me - let's see if I can rustle up some more romantic feelings for him :D . But I am not a spiteful person, I do not see that in Daphne at all, but I can imagine other people might.)
No, the whole business does not sit well with me either. Too sudden, too drastic. If there had at least been a shred of a hint in previous episodes that she might like him as a man - perhaps. But not the way they did it (please no one mention Daphne hates Sherry, I don't take this (wonderful) episode as evidence that she had feelings for Niles, but simply that she was horny beyond redemption, and if another friend/acquaintance had conveniently been around, she might have gone to him).

You miss the part when I said "suddenly".And Daphnee didnt really have much of a friendship with Niles till late on before getting with him.Till like season 4 Niles was only "Boss's Brother".That can be evidenced with how she always used to call him "Dr.Crane" then he started calling him "Niles" when they got together(which I never got used too :lol:)

Eddie2012 wrote:Interesting, never thought about it that way. Something to mull over on the sofa after a festive dinner :) .

Well remember the episodes where Maris ends up in Jail cuz she accidently kills somebody and Niles goes their everyday...those episodes speak for themselves tbh.

On a somewhat relate note:Have you noticed that Maris is pretty much a Parody of Vera.....Norm's Wife from Cheers...who's never seen throughout the series :D
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Re: How Watchable is Season 11?

Postby Patrick » Sat Dec 22, 2012 8:29 pm

DAMN wrote:...
On a somewhat relate note:Have you noticed that Maris is pretty much a Parody of Vera.....Norm's Wife from Cheers...who's never seen throughout the series :D

Actually, even if we don't see Vera entirely, we once see her with her face covered with pie cream.

Image

and here's the actress behind the pie:

Image


Plus we hear Vera's voice at least half a dozen times on the show.

That's much more that can be said for Maris that we never see otherwise than as a vague shadow or covered with bandages like a mummy and that we never ever hear talk.
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Re: How Watchable is Season 11?

Postby CatNamedRudy » Sat Dec 22, 2012 10:15 pm

I believe we also see Vera in silhouette outside the bar.
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Re: How Watchable is Season 11?

Postby Patrick » Sat Dec 22, 2012 10:27 pm

CatNamedRudy wrote:I believe we also see Vera in silhouette outside the bar.

We see her legs and then we hear her cry. It was the episode where she was hired by John Allen Hill as a hatcheck-girl. He fires her because she spends all her time spying on Norm.

I had seen every episode of Cheers many times even before I saw a single one of Frasier, just as god intended. :D
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Re: How Watchable is Season 11?

Postby DAMN » Sun Dec 23, 2012 4:21 am

Patrick wrote:Actually, even if we don't see Vera entirely, we once see her with her face covered with pie cream.

Image

and here's the actress behind the pie:

Image


Plus we hear Vera's voice at least half a dozen times on the show.

That's much more that can be said for Maris that we never see otherwise than as a vague shadow or covered with bandages like a mummy and that we never ever hear talk.

Ah yes I remember now :).Though we never see her face in the show.Maris is on the Box once in an episode drinking some stuff through a hole which her waitress brings it to her :D
Though still she was inspired by Vera hahaha
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Re: How Watchable is Season 11?

Postby DAMN » Sun Dec 23, 2012 4:23 am

Patrick wrote:We see her legs and then we hear her cry. It was the episode where she was hired by John Allen Hill as a hatcheck-girl. He fires her because she spends all her time spying on Norm.

I had seen every episode of Cheers many times even before I saw a single one of Frasier, just as god intended. :D

LOL She spies him through the hole and Norm just knows that she's watching him...that episode is hilarious :lol:
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Re: How Watchable is Season 11?

Postby hansenkd » Sun Dec 30, 2012 10:04 pm

Jumping in late...not going to get into the Frasier/Charlotte, Niles/Daphne minefield. But Cat mentioned that "The Ann Who Came to Dinner" is the only unwatchable episode of S11. I agree, somewhat. The main plot is execrable. But the Maris subplot is great fun and culminates with the best prop ever produced for the show. So that rescues it from "unwatchability."
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