Castalia wrote:Although I would say that the way Martin dismisses Frasier and Niles' interests comes across as snobbery too. The father and the children are more alike than they imagine.
Eddie2012 wrote:Castalia wrote:Although I would say that the way Martin dismisses Frasier and Niles' interests comes across as snobbery too. The father and the children are more alike than they imagine.
That is why I am always a little irritated at the ‘outrage’ at drunken Niles’ behaviour towards his dad in Room Full of Heroes.
Martins put-downs are very frequent, he is always telling them how sports or a stint in the army would have done them a world of good, how his late wife had to pick him up about it ("So what if the trophy says baking instead of baseball, Marty? Catchers' mitts or oven mitts, they're our little champions.” From IQ). Telling Frasier in Back Talk that he doesn’t trust doctors, then correcting himself by saying that this didn’t include Frasier as he meant real doctors, etc, etc, etc.
All said in good humour and for comedy sake, obviously, and while I don’t doubt Martin loves his boys to bits, those constant put-downs might over time hurt a more sensitive person like Niles a lot. If you constantly make light of your son’s life choices, then why are you surprised when they start to think of themselves as disappointments to you?
Forever Jung wrote::twisted: The show started with Frasier going home to Seattle, and I dare say that there wouldn't be much comedy in a smooth transition.
They needed a foil. Someone placed close to Frasier who was in a position to rub him up the wrong way. Makes things more difficult.
Frasier had once told someone at Cheers(was it Sam or Woody?) that Martin was dead, which is not the kind of thing you'd say if you got on well with him.
Martin could be petulant at times, stubborn to the point of being childish, but so can most of the people.
He can be over critical at times, but perhaps he doesn't realize it. I think most of us would not recognize ourself through anothers eyes.
I remember watching an interview with the dude who played Joseph Goebbels in Der Untergang, and he said he didn't play Goebbels as an evil man, because Goebbels didn't see himself as an evil man.
Nobody looks at themselves as being evil, and likewise I don't think many people see themselves as being too critical, too sarcastic, too righteous.
Except for the few assholes of the world who do it on purpose because they revel in being assholes
The chacacter mellowed quick quickly (thank god) because the writters knew (correctly) that if he was going to be in the show long time the viewers would have to take to him. I don't know about you folks, but if I don't like a character it makes it so much harder to like a show.
It might be OK to introduce unlikeable characters. Ann the insurance lady is top of my list, but there's also Simon and Gertrude Moon, but none of these characters are regular to every show. Their dislikable attributes can only affect our enjoyment of the program so much.
The character developed because he had too to run the course. Martin was multi dementional because real people are multi dimentional. You may be able to attribute a characteristic to a character, but you can't make them that one thing all the time and never have them do anything different.
I don't like the show Seinfeld (because from the short clips i've seen, I dont see anybody I find likable) and haven't seen much of it, but from what i've seen of the character Krammer he is always crazy and shouting at the top of his voice.
That can't stay funny for long, surely?
So I personally think they did a good job in bringing in Martin to be an obsticle to Frasier, and then developed him so that he fit into the show.
I don't like the show Seinfeld (because from the short clips i've seen, I dont see anybody I find likable) and haven't seen much of it, but from what i've seen of the character Krammer he is always crazy and shouting at the top of his voice.
That can't stay funny for long, surely?
CatNamedRudy wrote:Kramer always shouting from the top of his voice? What Seinfeld clips have you been watching? He was crazy and on occasion there was a yell or two but those times were only once in a while. I found Seinfeld very funny and entertaining. For 9 years. Is that long?
Forever Jung wrote:I don't like the show Seinfeld (because from the short clips i've seen, I dont see anybody I find likable) and haven't seen much of it, but from what i've seen of the character Krammer he is always crazy and shouting at the top of his voice.
Forever Jung wrote:I don't like the show Seinfeld (because from the short clips i've seen, I dont see anybody I find likable) and haven't seen much of it, but from what i've seen of the character Krammer he is always crazy and shouting at the top of his voice.
That can't stay funny for long, surely?
I get the sense that the writers want us to side with Martin because he's "down-to-earth" - an assessment I've heard other people make of his character - while chiding Frasier and Niles' rarefied "pretensions".
Well, Martin has a much better understanding of people in general and of the realities of life than either of his children.
I always saw him as the good-natured, righteous old man who provides a reality check for the more intellectual Crane brothers.
Moon-Crane wrote:Interesting perception. You're a huge Meat Loaf fan, yet whenever i see him on tv all he appears to do is put on the abrasive act and constantly shout at the top of his voice. I imagine that never gets tiring for you, though?
There's no real rhyme or reason. We all like what we like and we'll do whatever it takes to justify it
Forever Jung wrote:Moon-Crane wrote:Interesting perception. You're a huge Meat Loaf fan, yet whenever i see him on tv all he appears to do is put on the abrasive act and constantly shout at the top of his voice. I imagine that never gets tiring for you, though?
There's no real rhyme or reason. We all like what we like and we'll do whatever it takes to justify it
An excellent point
I don't know if i'd call him abrasive but he's deffinatly over the top a lot of the time. But I find his personality funny.
I remember the dude who did the soap reviews for GMTV was getting interupted by Meat, and he said "The laugh's on you because I got £10 from It Shouldn't Happen To A TV Presenter every time you interupt me". Meat, being the nice and helpful guy he is said he'd help him make some more money by interupting again and said they were now up to £20 lol.
The point is, I find Meat funny in that role at that time because sometimes it's like watching an extended clip of ISHTATVP.
I used to like It'll Be Alright On The Night, Clive James, Tarrant On TV, and I like watching Rude Tube when things are going wrong. A Meat interview can be like a feature length clip.
It's not the only sign i've seen of him though. I've seen/read some pretty interesting interviews from him.
Doesn't matter what i'd call him though, if your perception is that he's abrasive because it's all you've ever seen him do, to you he's abrasive.
Moon-Crane wrote: (did any Brits happen to catch him on the recent Sunday Brunch? - hilarious)
Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 7 guests
© Site contents are copyright Stuart Lee 1999 - 2024. This is a Frasier fan site and is not affiliated in any way with the program, Grub St Productions, Paramount or NBC. |