Frasier Online

I don't mind Frasier Lite. I find it pretty amusing through most of it. I don't even mind Roz cutting off her pony tail. What I don't like is Noel's behavior with the pony tail at the end. It's just creepy.

My problem with Wheels of Fortune has nothing to do with the others "buying" Blaine's schtick (unfortunately, plenty of otherwise smart people fall for that kind of stuff...witness all the people involved in Scientology). What bothers me is that for once, Frasier is absolutely right and he's treated like an outcast because of it. (reminds me a bit of The Crucible which is my second most hated episode ever). Michael Keaton is wonderful in his role but I still have a difficult time watching the episode.

PistolPoet wrote:[i]I do agree that it was implausible that everyone bought his lies, most of all that moment when Daphne's voice quivers because she's so moved, I really don't think Daphne would be that naive.

I beg to differ, Daphne's one of those people who are so unpredictable. Many time she has shown herself that she is intelligent, for example in Dukes we hardly knew ya

Daphne: What a couple of walllies, could it be that he just wants to have a couple of pints with his sons.

However she did think Jerome Bellasco was a chiropractor and she did remain naive to Niles' interest in her over the first 7 years.

What I'm getting at is that it cannot be unheard of for Daphne to be that naive.

(just for the sake of correctness, it wasn't me who made that commet, but PistolPoet )

Eddie2012 wrote:(just for the sake of correctness, it wasn't me who made that commet, but PistolPoet )

I do apologise Eddie2012 just put it down to my own naievity.

P.s I have now edited the post.

Plus Daphne is no stranger to naiveté. The way she bought all the crap that came out of the mouth of Cliff dwarfs her gullibility in Wheels of fortune.

"I didn't know there were so many letters in the dolphin alphabet."

Oh my goodness, Cheerful Goodbyes.... that might actually be my current worst episode - I had that one completely pushed out of my mind

tgirl wrote:
I beg to differ, Daphne's one of those people who are so unpredictable. Many time she has shown herself that she is intelligent, for example in Dukes we hardly knew ya

Daphne: What a couple of walllies, could it be that he just wants to have a couple of pints with his sons.

However she did think Jerome Bellasco was a chiropractor and she did remain naive to Niles' interest in her over the first 7 years.

What I'm getting at is that it cannot be unheard of for Daphne to be that naive.

Yeah, you and Patrick make a good case, I guess I just forgot some of the moments when she was particularly naive.

Eddie2012 wrote:Oh my goodness, Cheerful Goodbyes.... that might actually be my current worst episode - I had that one completely pushed out of my mind

Yep. Such a wasted opportunity to use a bunch of the Cheers cast.

Oh my goodness, Cheerful Goodbyes.... that might actually be my current worst episode - I had that one completely pushed out of my mind

I concur, easy to forget and in my opinion the absolute worst episode of Frasier.

"Frasier-Lite" was a too-many-writers-spoiled-the-broth episode (the opposite of "Moon Dance"), seems like a bad parody of an early-season KACL hijinks episode (like "Oops" or "Roz in the Doghouse"), and was unworthy of being Bulldog's last-ever appearance. Definitely a major stinker in the middle of a mostly high-quality S11.

Now on to the topic at hand. It's an old thread, but since this horrific episode has not been mentioned, let me spell it out as an absolute fact that the WORST EPISODE EVER is....(drum roll):

LEGAL. TENDER. LOVE. AND. CARE!!!!

And it hasn't even been mentioned in this thread.

This episode was disastrous not only for its content, but for its timing. It was a cheap way to end the Donny plot, but that's beside the point. It followed a pretty good episode, "Taking Liberties," which was generally liked and had almost convinced the skeptical fans (read--mainly those who didn't like N&D getting together) that S8 might not be so bad. It was only after LTLC that people started to really turn on the show. I pinpoint it as the moment where even loyal fans were getting on the "jump the shark" bandwagon.

It was the first episode written by Saladin Patterson. Enough said.

And the content was pretty terrible. Aside from the clumsy end to the Donny plot (contrasted quite strongly with the rather deft ending to the Mel plot in the previous episode), there is that final scene in the attorney's office, one of the show's worst scenes EVER. It was a rehash of scenes we had seen a thousand times before. The garden-variety "Frasier offends a woman before he is able to have sex with her" plot that we had seen since the dawn of "Frasier" time, back in some of the worst early episodes such as "Call Me Irresponsible" and "Can't Buy Me Love." Teri Polo was a disatrous casting choice. And the addition of that "You still can" was utterly CRINGEWORTHY.

And, oh, dear God, I haven't even mentioned "Spooky!" Uuuuuuggghhhhh!

Given its timing, its implication for its season and the show's future, its status as the debut episode of the show's worst-ever writer, and its content, LTLC stands without close competition as the worst episode of "Frasier" ever.

Oh, and "Sharing Kirby" wasn't really that terrible. Perhaps one of the most forgettable episodes of the 264, but not dreadful.

I did a quick scan of the Saladin Patterson episodes and what I got is :

War of the words: with that terrible line from Niles "Spell his ass off!"

Tales From The Crypt: Heavyish! I've seen clown acts with more finesse.

Love Stinks: Same problem. Too heavy and predictable.

Wizard and Roz and Trophy Girlfriend: Creepy and heavy.

Analyzed Kiss: A mediocre episode at best.

So I agree with your assessment. Frasier could have done very well without this writer.

The episode I like least is the one where Frasier's first wife (Nanny G? something like that) is in town and they go after each other for one last "reunion". It bothered me that Frasier doesn't seem to care that she's now married, but more than anything I just found it to be really stupid. The whole ending where he dresses as a baby and participates in the show... that was totally ridiculous to me. It seemed like something you would see on a children's cartoon, not the kind of show Frasier became. If I didn't love the series and if I'd known the term at the time, I would have suspected that it was Frasier's 'jump the shark' moment. Granted the final couple of seasons aren't the best (it's the curse of a long-running show, stay with the formula and it gets boring but change it up too much and the fans will be displeased), but that episode in particular sticks out to me as a waste of an episode.

eoinmolloy wrote:I know I love Frasier with all my heart but one episode that struck me as just a boring episode was Season 9, "Sharing Kirby". Funny at parts but just an uneventful story-line. So I ask you, what - in your own honest opinion - was your worst episode of Frasier ever!

I didn't like the Kirkby story arc.

I'm surprised that anyone would call "Motor Skills" one of the worst episodes. The last classroom where they are "bad boys" in the back of the classroom was hysterical, especially the way they strutted out of the room when they were kicked out.

I generally dislike snobs like Frasier and Niles too. Motor Skills was the type of episode I'd expect to see on lesser quality shows, but it wasn't the worst. Tsar is Born is a great "comeuppance" type episode. The snobs expect the world out of life, to be royalty and are brought down to earth. It was done well in the "spa" episode, can't remember the name, where the boys end up by the dumpster thinking a beautiful room awaits them. "Cheerful Goodbyes" was a very wasted opportunity, I think it should have been done earlier in the show, the first 5 seasons and could have been done really well. What came out more for me was that Carla was extremely hateful toward Cliff. She never liked him much, but it was extremely venomous and I didn't care for that.

"Cheerful Goodbyes", if done differently could have been a great episode, unfortunately they made a sloppy job of it. Carla's hatred of Cliff was done like a clown act, it sounded like they didn't believe it was real either themselves. The episode looked like a series of little skits, that were meant to be cute and were boring instead.

They were too far removed from "Cheers" to really do their characters justice. What was most interesting was how much DHP looked like Kelsey in the early years of "Cheers." They could really be brothers.

Caught in the Act
A Seal Came to Dinner
Wheel of Fortune

There are others that I tire of, just don't care for, but the above 3 I won't watch.

I can sympathise with the first one and definitely agree with the third one - but my beloved 'Seal' episode? Really?

Perruchee wrote:Caught in the Act
A Seal Came to Dinner
Wheel of Fortune

There are others that I tire of, just don't care for, but the above 3 I won't watch.

Love the top two.

Wheels of Fortune makes me want to throw things at my TV.

Eddie2012 wrote:I can sympathise with the first one and definitely agree with the third one - but my beloved 'Seal' episode? Really?

I'm a fan of that one, too. Wouldn't list those three anywhere near my worst. I'm one of the few here who doesn't mind Wheels Of Fortune. And, can't think of any episode i'd actively avoid - I'll still watch Some Assembly Required if it's on, even though it's my personal worst.

What's the reason for the total boycott of those three, Perruchee? Any specific moments or just a general hatred

I actively avoid The Crucible. Amazingly enough I don't avoid A New Position for Roz because the dinner part is funny.

Caught in the Act - I don't remember any other episode where Frasier has no regard for others to this degree. They portray Nanny G's husband as a decent if not boring, single-minded kind of a guy, who apparently Frasier has no qualms about 'doing' his wife. The bed scene with Frasier in the diaper hiding under the covers puts it over the top for me.

Wheels of Fortune - I really like Michael Keaton, just not playing this part. I would have liked this episode better if Blain would have been a real convert or if Frasier would have stayed convinced he was a fraud and then we found out he was. I just don't care for the story line that they all were duped and he was a fraud.

Taking time to think about this, maybe prior characters played by Michael Keaton and Laurie Metcalf I have liked and that I like both of them as actors but detest the characters they play in these episodes make them very unappealing to me.

The Seal Who Came to Dinner - It's all about the seal. There are some pretty funny parts to this episode, but I think they go way in too much detail about the seal. I didn't watch this episode once and think I'll never watch again. I've seen it many times, but got to the point where I don't want to hear about stabbing a dead seal, how to bury it, how much it stinks and what it's wearing. I would have liked this episode more if there had been more about maybe the neighbor who loved Maris and the snobby chef.

Wheels of fortune: I think the misguided, clumsy ways Frasier is trying to disprove Blain all along is what does it to me. If I didn't know better I would have suspected foul play.
I think that what makes Frasier such an easy mark for such things is that deep down he really believes in this crap. There were thousands of ways more efficient and discreet to prove that Blaine was lying about his accident (Like when there is an accident involving mutilation and handicap there should be a police report about it, it's hard to get the policed involved in a scam like this, isn't it?) and none of them included making an ass of himself before a crowd or involuntarily aiding and abetting a criminal. Of course Blaine would have done a little homework, of course the doctor who's name he gave was the first thing that should have been checked. Like when someone trying to "case the joint" by entering your home under false pretenses. You shouldn't call the number they gave you but instead ask for his credentials and then call the proper authorities about them. Two years ago I was in that situation, a man at my door that looked normal (unlike Blaine who had charlatan written all over him) said that he was to check my pipes on behalf of city hall. So I asked for his credentials and said that I'd call city hall to see if they know of him. He refused to tell me anything and promptly disappeared. I Called the police and told them of the incident. He was never heard from again in my part of town. I asked around, only one person in the street let him in but they weren't robbed after that or anything, so I guess I scared the guy off.

The thing that I hate about Wheels is the fact that Frasier is right and everyone treats him like he's an idiot. It's the same thing with The Crucible for me. In both of these episodes it's Martin that I want to slap in the head repeatedly!