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The Last Frasier Episode You Watched.

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Postby welshben23 » Wed Dec 20, 2006 4:34 pm

I dont think We Two Kings is that funny, its just the sentiment in the episode I liked.
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Postby Frasier » Wed Dec 20, 2006 4:43 pm

Frasier: Father and Sons A

I really, really liked this episode. It was funny, and a bit sad, and interesting too. That man seemed to be exactly like Frasier and Niles. If there is one criticism, it would be at the end where there was a bit of an unrealistic twist that assuaged Martin.

:D
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Postby Nervosa » Wed Dec 20, 2006 6:20 pm

You Can Go Home Again, S3.

Generally a good episode. But I've never understood why they picked that name for it...
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Postby DHP » Wed Dec 20, 2006 6:29 pm

My Coffee With Niles.

A really good episode and a great way to end season 1. Much better than some other seasons which end on a bit of a mediocre note.
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Postby Nervosa » Wed Dec 20, 2006 6:39 pm

DHP wrote:My Coffee With Niles.

A really good episode and a great way to end season 1. Much better than some other seasons which end on a bit of a mediocre note.


I also liked that it was shot in real time, which was a nice feature for a sitcom.
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Postby Cake for Brains » Wed Dec 20, 2006 6:46 pm

My Coffee With Niles.

A really good episode and a great way to end season 1. Much better than some other seasons which end on a bit of a mediocre note.


An amazing episode - my second favourite of all time in fact. I love how all the issues of the season are discussed, and the viewer is rewarded as the various relationships come full circle and you can see how far the characters have come. It's a real feel-good celebratory episode, as well as being laugh-out loud funny throughout.
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Postby Nervosa » Wed Dec 20, 2006 6:48 pm

Cake for Brains wrote:
My Coffee With Niles.

A really good episode and a great way to end season 1. Much better than some other seasons which end on a bit of a mediocre note.


An amazing episode - my second favourite of all time in fact. I love how all the issues of the season are discussed, and the viewer is rewarded as the various relationships come full circle and you can see how far the characters have come. It's a real feel-good celebratory episode, as well as being laugh-out loud funny throughout.


I was pretty concerned that Frasier may be depressed because he kept dodging the "are you happy?" question. But I was pleased in the end when he finally said 'yes'.
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Postby Cake for Brains » Wed Dec 20, 2006 6:56 pm

I was pretty concerned that Frasier may be depressed because he kept dodging the "are you happy?" question. But I was pleased in the end when he finally said 'yes'.


Me too - I love how the writers managed to use Frasier's satisfaction at a cup of coffee as a metaphor for his happiness in life.
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Postby Frasier » Wed Dec 20, 2006 7:24 pm

DHP wrote:My Coffee With Niles.

A really good episode and a great way to end season 1. Much better than some other seasons which end on a bit of a mediocre note.


Do you, or does anybody else know that when that episode ends, do they show the pictures of the celebrities who played the callers on the radio show?
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Postby Cake for Brains » Wed Dec 20, 2006 7:36 pm

No they don't - the tag scene is just Frasier drinking his cup of coffee.

I don't think the starting doing the 'celebrity voices' end credit sequence until Season 3, although I stand to be corrected.
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Postby Wezzo » Wed Dec 20, 2006 8:13 pm

Cake for Brains wrote:No they don't - the tag scene is just Frasier drinking his cup of coffee.

I don't think the starting doing the 'celebrity voices' end credit sequence until Season 3, although I stand to be corrected.


I'm sure I recall they used it at the end of S2's Dark Victory..
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Postby Cake for Brains » Wed Dec 20, 2006 8:41 pm

I'm sure I recall they used it at the end of S2's Dark Victory..


I think you're right actually - my mistake.
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Postby Frasier » Thu Dec 21, 2006 4:39 pm

Of course I watch paramount tv. So today I watched 2 Frasier episodes:

Analyzed Kiss - A-

A New Position For Roz - A

The latter episode was very, very interesting. It is one of those times when Frasier is firm (though not comically) - very powerful stuff.

So the 10th series ended with a friendship split between Frasier and Roz- I just wonder how that took its toll on the viewers who saw it first time.
Any ideas anyone?
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Postby Cake for Brains » Thu Dec 21, 2006 4:48 pm

Analyzed Kiss - A-

A New Position For Roz - A

The latter episode was very, very interesting. It is one of those times when Frasier is firm (though not comically) - very powerful stuff.


The two episodes you mentioned above are generally considered to be among the show’s very weakest efforts, but I’m glad you enjoyed them. I must confess that I’m baffled as to why – I found Frasier’s harshness with Roz and her over-the-top reaction to Julia painful and cringe-worthy to watch. Each to their own though. Here are the reviews are posted for the afore mentioned episodes last December – and I wouldn’t change a word.

ANALYSED KISS

After the brilliance of the previous episode ‘Fathers and Sons’ this one couldn’t be more different and contrasts the former gem enormously. I suppose the only good thing to come out of the mess that was ‘Analyzed Kiss’ was the satisfactory knowledge of knowing that this was the last time the credit ‘written by Saladin K. Patterson’ would come up on screen because this dreadful author left at the end of this season and was replaced by a team of much, much more competent writers. This episode also develops the relationship between Frasier and Julia, and after they share a kiss in a closet, Frasier is left wondering why she did this. I found the other plot with Roz receiving a call from radio station KPXY out of the blue, although offering Peri Gilpin a larger role to play in the episode, strangely unnecessary. I could be wrong here but I imagine NBC were trying to inject some emotional drama into the show in order to boost the ratings, but I felt that this storyline wasn’t needed.

I have still failed to notice any chemistry between Kelsey Grammer and Felicity Huffman, but I can’t say I was surprised to see them share a passionate kiss. I presume that this device was again an attempt to place some drama into Frasier, because this whole section was devoid of any laughs and felt very weak indeed in my opinion. The plot is basically Julia attempting to get some files from her ex-boyfriend’s office (Avery from Farewell Nervosa) and as an act of kindness Frasier agrees to accompany her. To escape being seen by the cleaning lady, they hide in the closet and Julia (apparently to shut Frasier up) kisses him, which leaves him wondering why she did this. To me, this sudden burst of desirous passion felt very soap-opera like, like a scene from a serial drama and not a sophisticated Emmy laden sitcom. I’m digressing here though, but I found this subplot very dull indeed, and although I liked Julia’s description of Frasier as ‘a teddy bear she just wanted to hug until its head fell off’ reasonably amusing, this episode amounted to nothing more than a contrived cliffhanger, to which I couldn’t care less about the outcome.

What is the point of getting Roz to leave KACL? Ratings, perhaps? Although there were a few smiles raised in this subplot, and although Peri Gilpin was excellent, I felt that this was (like the Frasier/Julia storyline) an excuse to boost the dramatic dynamic of the series. The one genuinely funny moment though was when Roz went for her interview, convinced that she wasn’t going to get the job because she had slept with the interviewer a decade ago, only to embarrassingly discover that she had slept with his father, who shared the same name. It must have been a good tactic though, because it won her the job, which is an issue that I’m sure will be addressed in the upcoming season finale. Again though, why bother? As far as I’m concerned it was unnecessary to engender such a pointless plot, and I think it shows how desperate the people at NBC were at this point. Peri Gilpin has had little to do over the past three years, and I think this rare opportunity to push her into the limelight has been wasted, and further determines that the writers didn’t have a clue as to what they should do with her character.

Even the subplot, in which Niles develops an interest in ‘hand-guns’ and forms a bond with some ‘regular guys’ feels oddly out of place. Although it was great to see David Hyde Pierce armed with a handgun, the rest of it just didn’t deliver the laughs. I liked the notion that Niles shouldn’t have a gun in the same house as Daphne’s mother, and liked the resolution which saw Niles ‘buddies’ revealed as people who were intent on overthrowing the government, but all in all it was too silly and basic to throw up any really big laughs. In conclusion then, this episode is on the whole poorly written, with three plots that fail to reach their potential. I couldn’t care less about Frasier and Julia’s relationship, Niles’ interest in guns wasn’t the most exciting of plots, and I can’t see why the writers’ have lost Roz her job at KACL. A question I’m sure will be answered in the season finale, which I can’t say I’m particularly excited about, which I imagine was the aim of this penultimate episode. But on the plus side, Saladin K. Patterson has left the building – yes!!! Finally somebody has flushed the toilet… (Sorry that was uncalled for).

A NEW POSITION FOR ROZ

Season 10 has been such a big improvement over Seasons’ 8 and 9 that it was a shame that this season had to conclude in such a weak way, because ‘A New Position to Roz’ fell flat on its face and played out more like a soap opera than a comedy show. Let’s begin by recapping on the events engendered by ‘Analyzed Kiss’, which saw Roz quite her job to take up a position at KPXY and Frasier begin a relationship with co-worker Julia Wilcox. There are very few laughs throughout this season finale in my opinion, and it was crammed full of cringe-worthy out of character moments, most noticeably the monster that Roz transformed into when she propositioned Frasier with an ultimatum. I think that the only part of the central storyline that felt remotely right in the context of the show was Roz showing Noel Shempsky the production ropes; only Patrick Kerr overacts something terrible. I liked Julia’s line though, as she enters on the scene and Roz tells her that she is showing Noel what she does; ‘Is that why he’s on his knees?’. Aside from this there is a very little else to be laughed at here, and even the KACL farewell dinner falls far short of its comedic premise.

Imagine the opportunities that were missed? Bulldog, Noel Gil Chesterton and Kenny all reunited to bid farewell to Roz could have been so funny, but yet the whole sequence was made up of terrible cracks regarding Roz’s sex life. Although it is part of Bulldog’s butch persona to be insensitive and in-your-face, his clichéd attempts to squeeze jokes out of Roz’s sex life felt desperately weak and made me groan. This was made even worse by Noel’s frequent vows to kill Bulldog, and the only real moment that raised a smile was Gil’s gloriously flowery goodbye speech. Elsewhere its all change for Niles and Daphne, and Niles proposes that he wants to have a child, which means that Mrs Moon has to move out. I felt pleased for Niles when he finally stood up to his mother-in-law and told her to pack her bags, but as usual the comedy was drained when the whole thing became deeply ridiculous with Daphne and her mother weeping at the door. However this over-the-top show of dramatics seemed tame when compared to what follows between Roz and Julia.

Over the last decade (believe it or not that is how long Frasier had been on television at this point) we have never had any reason to dislike Roz, but here, she comes across as cold, churlish and annoying as she forces Frasier to choose between Julia and herself, because she thinks Julia is ‘evil’. I have expected everyone to break into song or break out into an enormous fight, because the whole sequence felt contrived and scripted, with dialogue like ‘Tell me now! It’s her or me!’ and ‘I’ll go out of this door and I won’t come back!’ – it was painful. The dialogue felt like it had been lifted from some kind of hammed up soap opera, and ran more like a drama than a sitcom. Frasier reacts to this in a totally callous way too, and ignores her, instead focussing his attention on ‘restaurant cake’. The season ends on a real downer, as Roz dramatically proclaims that ‘KACL is ancient history!’ I felt sorry for Peri Gilpin having to work with such dire material, and felt that the writer was turning Roz’s character into an absolute monster. You didn’t even feel sorry for her when she stormed out of Frasier's apartment. In conclusion then, this episode is a poorly written affair, with terribly bad characterisation that ends this season on a real low.

However, Season 10 on the whole has been mostly enjoyable, and although it still doesn’t come close to capturing the brilliance maintained by the first seven seasons, it has been a big improvement over the previous two in my opinion. Although I didn’t care for many of the story arcs that were introduced in this season, such as the Niles heart surgery trilogy, the Julia character, Daphne’s mother, etc, the season did have its fair share of enjoyable episodes. I found ‘Fathers and Sons’ an absolute classic, with at least another four really good episodes. That’s not to say there weren’t a fair number of clunkers; because ‘Trophy Girlfriend’ and ‘Some Assembly Required’ were glowing examples of the decline Frasier has suffered in quality. However Season 10 is trumped by the proceeding Season 11, and with the departure of certain writers like Saladin K. Patterson and Eric Zicklin being replaced by authors like the mighty Joe Keenan and Christopher Lloyd, Season 11 would prove to be an astonishing revival in quality. Therefore, Season 10 is the best of a bad bunch of seasons, and although it had more decent episodes than Seasons’ 8 and 9, the improvement made by Season 11 is unbelievable.

Any thoughts?
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Postby Frasier » Thu Dec 21, 2006 4:59 pm

Thanks a lot for that, I've printed them out and I'm going to read them.- Soon I'm going to embark on rearranging my room - I've been putting it off all week, but not anymore! :lol:
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Postby Cake for Brains » Thu Dec 21, 2006 5:02 pm

Thanks a lot for that, I've printed them out and I'm going to read them.- Soon I'm going to embark on rearranging my room - I've been putting it off all week, but not anymore!


I'll warn you in advance - they don't make for happy reading! :D I'm keen to know where you disagree with me on the episodes though.

Good luck on rearranging your room. Mine's a bit of a mess at the moment - wrapping paper everywhere.
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Postby Wezzo » Thu Dec 21, 2006 9:06 pm

The Fight Before Christmas A
Mary Christmas C
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Postby welshben23 » Thu Dec 21, 2006 9:10 pm

You've been very lenient on Mary Christmas there Wes :P.
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Postby Wezzo » Thu Dec 21, 2006 9:33 pm

welshben23 wrote:You've been very lenient on Mary Christmas there Wes :P.


Well, 'tis the season to be jolly.. :)
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Postby Bee Gees Fan » Thu Dec 21, 2006 9:45 pm

I intend to watch Frasier Grinch as soon as I can. But not now. It appears that the TV will be tied-up for a while.
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Postby Nervosa » Thu Dec 21, 2006 10:01 pm

A New Position For Roz.

Woah, seriously the best acting from Peri I've seen on the show. I hadn't seen the episode in its entirity before, therefore I missed the dramatic end to it. It was the end to one season.....which season was that?
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Postby Cake for Brains » Thu Dec 21, 2006 10:03 pm

It's the Season 10 finale. Did you enjoy it?
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Postby Nervosa » Thu Dec 21, 2006 10:10 pm

Cake for Brains wrote:It's the Season 10 finale. Did you enjoy it?


Thanks Cakey. It was okay, certainly not a classic. But I did enjoy Roz's performance at the end. I thought I'd seen all of season 10, but this must've been the missing episode.

I felt that argument between her and Frasier was very difficult to recover from, and being curious to the outcome, I checked out the season 11 initial episode from the episode guide here. To my surprise, I'd seen it before, and can't remember any dramtic "making up" scenes between Frasier and Roz. It's been about 2 years since I saw the episode in question, so can someone remind me if their making up scenes were dramatic or casual?
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Postby Cake for Brains » Thu Dec 21, 2006 10:21 pm

Okay, we have a little suspicion on this forum about the end of Season 10. I imagine you know that the Season 7 finale saw the departure of showrunners/writers Joe Keenan and Christopher Lloyd, who left the new team to tackle the issue of Niles and Daphne getting together, which I imagine was very difficult to enter in to. Season 11 marked the return of Keenan and Lloyd after a three-year break, and we suspect that showrunner Dan O'Shannon wanted to leave Keenan and Lloyd in a similar situation to how they left him. I hope that makes sense.

Anyway, you have to ask yourself what the purpose of Roz quitting KACL was... and in my mind that plot device would pointless because it didn't go anywhere at all. I found the Season 10 finale sloppy and soapy, with cringe-worthy, contrieved dialogue, and I felt sorry for Peri Gilpin having to work with it. Season 11 luckily brushed this disastrous storyline under the rug straight away and dealt with it marvellously in 'No Sex Please, We're Skittish'. After a chat with Niles or Martin (can't remember which), Roz is persuaded to just waltz back into work as if nothing has happened, even though she has been replaced. Having her act normally as if nothing had happened worked really well, and dealt with the lingering plotline brilliantly and rapidly.

Hope that helps!
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Postby Nervosa » Thu Dec 21, 2006 10:37 pm

Ahhh thanks Cakey. One of those bizzare "blame the writers" instances. From the ep description of 11.01, it did seem to be a bit mellow considering the scale of their argument.

In A New Position For Roz, Frasier seemed very heartless; not his usual friendly self. Now I know why.
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