Obama/McCain

[Mr Blue Sky]

Just a quick poll to see how people are thinking after being bombarded with relentless campaigning on both sides for the best part of a year. I'd be especially interested to hear what our American friends think, and how they'll be voting (should they wish to divulge such information on a public forum! )

My vote on here at least goes to Obama. My reasons are pretty much the same as Colin Powell's - I think he has the potential to be a transformational President who could energise his nation. Times are going to be tough for the next couple of years. We need to stop wasting billions on an unwinnable war and get the economy back on track. This worldwide economic disaster began in the US and I think they bear the greatest responsibility for turning things around. Four more years of Republican policies would be a disaster.

Just a quick word of warning, the Kerry/Bush thread we had four years ago got very heated and ended with a valuable member leaving the board. It was mainly due to events on that thread that persuaded Stu Moderators were needed...

[CatNamedRudy]

8 years of GWB has been enough. John McCain may say he's not GWB but the fact remains that he has voted along party lines 95% of the time. Not that I expect differently. Obama has done the same. (voting along party lines, not voted along with Bush).

But I'm a lefty who wants the govt. to stop trying to legislate my morality. Plus I've been against this stupid war from the start and I have much more faith in Obama to get us out of it than I do in McCain.

And if I'm perfectly honest, I have an issue with McCain's age and Sarah Palin is dumb as a brick. There are plenty of smart Republican women out there and he picks Sarah Palin! Oy!

[JT]

8 years of GWB has been enough. John McCain may say he's not GWB but the fact remains that he has voted along party lines 95% of the time. Not that I expect differently. Obama has done the same. (voting along party lines, not voted along with Bush).

But I'm a lefty who wants the govt. to stop trying to legislate my morality. Plus I've been against this stupid war from the start and I have much more faith in Obama to get us out of it than I do in McCain.

And if I'm perfectly honest, I have an issue with McCain's age and Sarah Palin is dumb as a brick. There are plenty of smart Republican women out there and he picks Sarah Palin! Oy!

Sarah Palin ain't dumb as a brick - no matter what our fair, objective media tells us. And her experience is better suited to the Presidency than O(rgasim)bama's. And legislating morality? I don't give two _ _ _ _ _ what anyone does in their bedroom, kitchen table or almost anywhere else. But I don't want some too young, too inexperienced, too liberal do-gooder to tell me that someones income needs to be fairly re-distributed. Thats the kind of legislating of morality that rubs me.

[JT]

I'm surprised McCain has gotten this much support here. But then again he himself is pretty liberal as well.

[Mr Blue Sky]

Sarah Palin ain't dumb as a brick - no matter what our fair, objective media tells us.

For someone at the very top of world politics, yes she is. And my source for that isn't those SNL sketches (which have no doubt damaged her greatly) but the many interviews she's given including her VP debate with the infinitely more impressive Joe Biden.

[Dorset Girl]

Sarah Palin ain't dumb as a brick - no matter what our fair, objective media tells us.

This is the main reason I gave up on the other thread. JT, I could have predicted before I read your response that you would have transferred the 'blame' away from the individual on to the 'biased media'. The thing is, direct interviews that she's given have done nothing to change my opinion of her. I'm not saying that the media don't distort stories - it would be ridiculous to assume that everything printed in the paper or reported in the news is objective, of course it's not. But for Sarah Palin to go up in my opinion, she would have to show (by coming across well in interviews, for starters) that the general impression that the media have given of her is wrong. From what I've seen, she hasn't done that. To me, she still basically looks a bit of a joke, and the many tongue-in-cheek groups that have sprung up around the internet - such as "join here if you have more foreign policy experience than Sarah Palin" - show me that I'm certainly not alone in that opinion.

I voted for Obama on this poll. I'm not claiming to have in-depth knowledge of his policies or of McCain's policies, but then I imagine that a significant percentage of the people who will actually be voting are in the same position as me - they have heard the core policies, maybe seen a few interviews, and read media reports. So why have I picked him? It's more a case of why I haven't picked McCain really. He comes across as the second George Bush, basically. He's also got a bit of Boris Johnson about him if you ask me.

As a non-US citizen, I'm obviously concerned more about the global issues than I am about those within the US itself. The economic crisis is the top concern, and the perception I have is that Obama os far more capable of digging us out of that than McCain is.

I know this post is going to be ripped apart now, and I'll be told I don't know what I'm talking about, but as I said above, I'm not claiming to know everything about everyone. Neither, IMHO, does the average American voter.

[Moon-Crane]

Both, as far as i can see, stand for increased government interference in people's every day lives, so it's the toss of a coin really.

[CatNamedRudy]

Both, as far as i can see, stand for increased government interference in people's every day lives, so it's the toss of a coin really.

Big difference for me being that Obama doesn't want to take away my right to choose to terminate an unwanted pregnancy (and I don't want this to turn into another abortion argument so let's leave it at that please) and he doesn't give a rat's ass if I want to marry a person of the same sex.

I'm not overly thrilled with either candidate but my girl screwed up her pre-lims so I'm stuck with Barry and Joe!

[Janey]

...and he doesn't give a rat's ass if I want to marry a person of the same sex.

Actually, during the vice-presidential debate, Biden said they were against same-sex marriage, which I found surprising.

Here's the quote, from the NYT transcript -

IFILL: Let's try to avoid nuance, Senator. Do you support gay marriage?

BIDEN: No. Barack Obama nor I support redefining from a civil side what constitutes marriage. We do not support that. That is basically the decision to be able to be able to be left to faiths and people who practice their faiths the determination what you call it.

[Moon-Crane]

Both, as far as i can see, stand for increased government interference in people's every day lives, so it's the toss of a coin really.

Big difference for me being that Obama doesn't want to take away my right to choose to terminate an unwanted pregnancy (and I don't want this to turn into another abortion argument so let's leave it at that please) and he doesn't give a rat's ass if I want to marry a person of the same sex.

I'm not overly thrilled with either candidate but my girl screwed up her pre-lims so I'm stuck with Barry and Joe!

Those points you make about Obama, if true, would certainly make me side with him on those issues at least.

[CatNamedRudy]

...and he doesn't give a rat's ass if I want to marry a person of the same sex.

Actually, during the vice-presidential debate, Biden said they were against same-sex marriage, which I found surprising.

Here's the quote, from the NYT transcript -

IFILL: Let's try to avoid nuance, Senator. Do you support gay marriage?

BIDEN: [b]No. Barack Obama nor I support redefining from a civil side what constitutes marriage. We do not support that. That is basically the decision to be able to be able to be left to faiths and people who practice their faiths the determination what you call it[/b].

I don't even know what that means! That's one messed up answer and I'm guessing it was meant to be that way! Freakin' politicians!

Sounds to me like what he's saying is the term "marriage" shouldn't be redefined by the govt. It should be left up to the church.

Fine. I don't have a problem with that. Makes no difference to me what they call it. The fact remains that the left isn't telling me (I'm using "me" in general terms as I myself have no desire to marry someone of the same sex) that I'm being immoral and that I have no right to spend the rest of my life with the person I love just because they are of the same sex.

There is absolutely no reason on Earth why two people of the same sex should not be allowed to have the same level of comittment that others are allowed.

And now I'm going to not go any further because like I didn't want this to turn into an abortion debate, I also don't want it to turn into a gay marriage debate.

[Janey]

There is absolutely no reason on Earth why two people of the same sex should not be allowed to have the same level of comittment that others are allowed.

And now I'm going to not go any further because like I didn't want this to turn into an abortion debate, I also don't want it to turn into a gay marriage debate.

I agree with you. (On same-sex marriage and not wanting to debate, lol.) I just wanted to point out that they have publicly come out against same-sex marriage.

I don't even know what that means! That's one messed up answer and I'm guessing it was meant to be that way! Freakin' politicians!

And how hilarious is it, considering the moderator had just said "Let's try to avoid nuance, Senator."?

[CatNamedRudy]

There is absolutely no reason on Earth why two people of the same sex should not be allowed to have the same level of comittment that others are allowed.

And now I'm going to not go any further because like I didn't want this to turn into an abortion debate, I also don't want it to turn into a gay marriage debate.

I agree with you. (On same-sex marriage and not wanting to debate, lol.) I just wanted to point out that they have publicly come out against same-sex marriage.

I don't even know what that means! That's one messed up answer and I'm guessing it was meant to be that way! Freakin' politicians!

And how hilarious is it, considering the moderator had just said "Let's try to avoid nuance, Senator."?

But if you actually dissect that answer, he didn't actually come out against gay marriage. He came out against CALLING it marriage. He says they are agasint redefining the word marriage.

In other words, like all politicians, he didn't answer the question he was asked! (avoid nuance....I think that's impossible for a career politician!)

[Moon-Crane]

Lovely 30 minute profile of Obama on tv last night, don't you agree, JT

Seriously though. Does he really think that expensive broadcast will have made any positive difference? I give most people credit for making their own minds up beyond silly marketing gimmicks - which applies to both parties.

[Wezzo]

Write-in: Hillary Clinton

Otherwise, Barack. I think I'm more sympathetic to McCain (and hell, Bush) in some ways than most here, but if I lived in the States I'd still vote Obama. The fact I can't stand Palin doesn't help.

MC, general impressions around the net seem to have been positive from the Obama infomercial, and I actually quite liked it. I don't think it would have worked in the UK, it was perhaps a bit sentimental? but I was generally impressed.

[Seek_Help_from_an_M.D.]

8 years of GWB has been enough. John McCain may say he's not GWB but the fact remains that he has voted along party lines 95% of the time. Not that I expect differently. Obama has done the same. (voting along party lines, not voted along with Bush).

But I'm a lefty who wants the govt. to stop trying to legislate my morality. Plus I've been against this stupid war from the start and I have much more faith in Obama to get us out of it than I do in McCain.

And if I'm perfectly honest, I have an issue with McCain's age and Sarah Palin is dumb as a brick. There are plenty of smart Republican women out there and he picks Sarah Palin! Oy!

Sarah Palin ain't dumb as a brick - no matter what our fair, objective media tells us. And her experience is better suited to the Presidency than O(rgasim)bama's. And legislating morality? I don't give two _ _ _ _ _ what anyone does in their bedroom, kitchen table or almost anywhere else. But I don't want some too young, too inexperienced, too liberal do-gooder to tell me that someones income needs to be fairly re-distributed. Thats the kind of legislating of morality that rubs me.

Take it from someone who has met her, and has had her as a governor, she kind of is. I was really liking McCain, up until the point he choose Sarah Palin, I mean she's nice and all, but she would not make a very good VP. So, lately I have been leaning towards Obama, but for me, it's still a tough decision. (P.S. I can't really vote yet.)

[Mr Blue Sky]

Lovely 30 minute profile of Obama on tv last night, don't you agree, JT

Seriously though. Does he really think that expensive broadcast will have made any positive difference? I give most people credit for making their own minds up beyond silly marketing gimmicks - which applies to both parties.

Thse things have been shown to be effective in the US though mate. I know die-hard cynics like you and I wouldn't be taken in by that guff, but he obviously has to appeal to the widest possible base to get his message across and in that sense I think it was a good move.

[Mr Blue Sky]

8 years of GWB has been enough. John McCain may say he's not GWB but the fact remains that he has voted along party lines 95% of the time. Not that I expect differently. Obama has done the same. (voting along party lines, not voted along with Bush).

But I'm a lefty who wants the govt. to stop trying to legislate my morality. Plus I've been against this stupid war from the start and I have much more faith in Obama to get us out of it than I do in McCain.

And if I'm perfectly honest, I have an issue with McCain's age and Sarah Palin is dumb as a brick. There are plenty of smart Republican women out there and he picks Sarah Palin! Oy!

Sarah Palin ain't dumb as a brick - no matter what our fair, objective media tells us. And her experience is better suited to the Presidency than O(rgasim)bama's. And legislating morality? I don't give two _ _ _ _ _ what anyone does in their bedroom, kitchen table or almost anywhere else. But I don't want some too young, too inexperienced, too liberal do-gooder to tell me that someones income needs to be fairly re-distributed. Thats the kind of legislating of morality that rubs me.

Take it from someone who has met her, and has had her as a governor, she kind of is. I was really liking McCain, up until the point he choose Sarah Palin, I mean she's nice and all, but she would not make a very good VP. So, lately I have been leaning towards Obama, but for me, it's still a tough decision. (P.S. I can't really vote yet.)

Interesting to hear her condemned from someone she's actually been serving these last few years! I don't think SP's image has been entirely cultivated by the US's 'biased liberal media', there is actually some substance to the belief that her grasp on the issues is paper thin.

[Mr Blue Sky]

Did anyone see the UK broadcast of Question Time from Washington last night? I only intended to watch a few minutes but ended up watching the whole damn thing. Simon Schama was one of the panellists, and as much as I enjoy him as a broadcaster I think his emotions got the better of him on a few occasions last night. Still, that's probably because he's not a politician, and thank god for that!

[CatNamedRudy]

Write-in: Hillary Clinton

Otherwise, Barack. I think I'm more sympathetic to McCain (and hell, Bush) in some ways than most here, but if I lived in the States I'd still vote Obama. The fact I can't stand Palin doesn't help.

MC, general impressions around the net seem to have been positive from the Obama infomercial, and I actually quite liked it. I don't think it would have worked in the UK, it was perhaps a bit sentimental? but I was generally impressed.

You know if I didn't think that doing that would be akin to giving my vote to McCain, I'd do it!

And MC, I'll echo what Wezzo and BS said. I didn't watch Obama's infomercial but it was actually really well received.

I'm not sure it changed anyone's vote or helped those undecided folks (after 2 years of this crap, HOW anyone can still be undecided is beyond me) but it was very well done. Sentimental I guess.

[Wezzo]

Did anyone see the UK broadcast of Question Time from Washington last night? I only intended to watch a few minutes but ended up watching the whole damn thing. Simon Schama was one of the panellists, and as much as I enjoy him as a broadcaster I think his emotions got the better of him on a few occasions last night. Still, that's probably because he's not a politician, and thank god for that!

I watched it. It was quite interesting, though the rowdy US audience was quite different to the usual reactions in Britain!

[Rodge]

Alas, all these polls are irrelevant. Everyone says publicly that they support Obama, but McCain will get to the White House when they are allowed to vote in secret.

[Moon-Crane]

Alas, all these polls are irrelevant. Everyone says publicly that they support Obama, but McCain will get to the White House when they are allowed to vote in secret.

Very true - not necessarily your predicted result, but the sentiment. We know polls reflect squat. How many times have the experts been burned. People will tell the media anything they want to hear, even if it's the opposite to their real intention.

[Hans the German Butler]

The combination of closet racists, closet Republicans who want to seem enlightened/not linked to the Bush years and the possibility of hanging chads in Florida makes the whole thing less cut and dried than it should be.

Did anyone hear the comment on Have I got news for you last week. "2 weeks for the CIA to try and figure out how to assassinate him"? Am I alone in thinking that it's not completely beyond the realms of possibility?

[Mr Blue Sky]

The combination of closet racists, closet Republicans who want to seem enlightened/not linked to the Bush years and the possibility of hanging chads in Florida makes the whole thing less cut and dried than it should be.

Did anyone hear the comment on Have I got news for you last week. "2 weeks for the CIA to try and figure out how to assassinate him"? Am I alone in thinking that it's not completely beyond the realms of possibility?

If you'd seen the excellent Kevin Spacey TV movie Recount Hans, you'd have learnt the plural of chad is...chad.

I'm definitely worried about the 'Bradley Effect' for the reasons you mention above, although I do think there are enough genuine reasons not to vote for Obama (experience, too liberal, etc.) for the closet racists not to lie to pollsters about supporting him.