Was It A Mistake to Get Niles and Daphne Together?

[genesisfan78]

What really killed me in the whole Niles / Daphne thing was the lack of passion they had. Even when they kissed, it looked like a brother and sister kissing! I'm sure all the fanfic writers (and I am one of them) never thought it would be that boring to see them together!

I used to watch The Nanny before I watched Frasier, and even if it's not the same quality as this show, at least Fran Drescher sure knows how to kiss!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=quCI02uK6Yk

That's pretty much what I was expecting, but I really didn't get that. Oh well. We'll always have the fanfics!

Miss Ge

[CatNamedRudy]

Totally agree with that post genesisfan!

[Nichachien]

For my money, the pairing worked best when the writers didn't overthink it. That's why the first couple of seasons of them together were occasionally unconvincing, because they were still trying to figure out the dynamics of the relationship, going through the succession of major developments etc. Like the others have said, how exactly, with all their differences, they actually work as a couple isn't a question which stands up to much scrutiny, so I think it got a whole lot better when the writers stopped trying to explain it at all. Add in all the obstacles the powers that be threw at them, and you're putting too much strain on a relationship which already requires a degree of suspension, disbelief-wise.

Seasons 10 and especially 11 were a dramatic improvement because they had finally arrived at the point where they were just 'a couple' and could simply fit into the show's dynamic. Once the exact nature of the pairing ceased to be a concern, the natural interaction took over and was, for me anyway, perfectly convincing.

[wolfpaw]

It wasn't a mistake as much as it was just inevitable. Did it spoil the series? For me, yes, mostly because of the character changes: Niles becomes a hen-pecked fool and Daphne becomes a shrew. Niles's character is almost unrecognisible compared with series 1-7. I never 'believed' in them as a couple anyway. Niles's longing from afar was much more believable, and in reality other characters, like Mel, were more suitable for him (no matter how much people might dislike her). Niles and Mel seemed 'right'. Niles and Daphne seemed 'wrong'. It might've worked better with decent writers but unfortunately series 8 didn't have any!

[Rozzas]

Wolfpaw puts it very well for me. I think it was a mistake overall although I accept there was an inevitability about it.

I remembered that some clever so-and-so likened a single event in a show, that turns the viewers off and is the beginning of its demise, to something that happened in Happy Days. I thought it was called "The Fonzie on water-skis moment" but a quick Google found that it was "Jumped the shark." Thankfully, it was indeed The Fonz - and he was on water-skis.

Without being in any way patronising, I'm sure lots of people know - especially on this forum - that Niles getting together with Daphne is widely regarded as the episode where Frasier (the show) "Jumped the shark."

That said, for me, it was S10 that killed it. That, and as a few people have pointed out, Daphne completely changing character, accent, vocal pitch and even appearance. And with the same actress! Not easy to do me thinks.

[Omega]

Yes. Indeed it was. In my opinion the main principle of Frasier was always cruelty on the part of the universe. Niles and Daphne changed that principle to "The universe is cruel-in the short term. In the long term it's neutral to positive", which I think is much more wishy-washy and led to the IMO not-that-awesome finale. However I acknowledge it would have been something different and they got great comedy out of it.

[nzmooncrane]

Daphne and Niles getting together is what attracted me to the show in the first place. It took 7 seasons and if i had to wait seven years, and if i had to wait that long to see them together it would have been agonising.

It was great to see them married...there was a small period after that, that i felt Daphne got a little high strung...but overall i feel the writers made a brillant job. I enjoyed the ep Daphne does Dinner,,very funny. I miss Fraiser.

[Mr Blue Sky]

Daphne and Niles getting together is what attracted me to the show in the first place. It took 7 seasons and if i had to wait seven years, and if i had to wait that long to see them together it would have been agonising.

It was great to see them married...there was a small period after that, that i felt Daphne got a little high strung...but overall i feel the writers made a brillant job. I enjoyed the ep Daphne does Dinner,,very funny. I miss Fraiser.

One of the better attempts at farce during the O'Shannon years.

It's a shame Daphne changed from loveable kook to overbearing nag when she and Niles got together but I guess there are lots of easy laughs to be mined in that area. On the positive side you could certainly say Daphne's character evolved the most over the 11 seasons.

[jrsightes]

Daphne and Niles getting together is what attracted me to the show in the first place. It took 7 seasons and if i had to wait seven years, and if i had to wait that long to see them together it would have been agonising.

It was great to see them married...there was a small period after that, that i felt Daphne got a little high strung...but overall i feel the writers made a brillant job. I enjoyed the ep Daphne does Dinner,,very funny. I miss Fraiser.

One of the better attempts at farce during the O'Shannon years.

It's a shame Daphne changed from loveable kook to overbearing nag when she and Niles got together but I guess there are lots of easy laughs to be mined in that area. On the positive side you could certainly say Daphne's character evolved the most over the 11 seasons.

I would say devolved, but yeah.

[tillyard]

I agree.. I don't really like what they did to Daphne.

[seledoux]

It's been a while since I've watched anything from the second half of the series.. is it fair to blame the writers entirely, or do you think Jane Leeves began to play her differently as well? Could any of her shrew-like aspects have been mitigated by careful line delivery? It will be interesting to pay attention as I watch..

[barnaclelapse]

I still don't think she changed all that much. She just moved her nagging from Martin to Niles with more of it added on because they were actually a couple.

[PHCaulfield]

I think it was: they were so clunkingly unconvincing as a couple.

[habu]

What really killed me in the whole Niles / Daphne thing was the lack of passion they had. Even when they kissed, it looked like a brother and sister kissing! I'm sure all the fanfic writers (and I am one of them) never thought it would be that boring to see them together!

I used to watch The Nanny before I watched Frasier, and even if it's not the same quality as this show, at least Fran Drescher sure knows how to kiss!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=quCI02uK6Yk

That's pretty much what I was expecting, but I really didn't get that. Oh well. We'll always have the fanfics!

Miss Ge

I agree with the first paragraph, especially the kissing analogy. Yikes!

[buttons_and_bows]

In short, no.

[AwesomeRigby]

I don't believe it was. I loved them together, and I was thrilled with they finally did together at the end of season 7. However, I guess I have not seen enough to see shrew Daphne. The only part I've seen when she's snapping at Niles was during the pregnancy, and I'm all "Don't pregnant woman usually do that?" and when he lied to her about Maris. I'm all "I would be pissed too."
Any other examples?? Don't give me any after the episode when Frasier meets Charlotte (I just finished that one)

[Maple]

Short answer, no!

IMO the Niles/Daphne love story is the greatest in tv history. That these wonderful characters finally found happiness was lovely, and very satisfying.

I am often surprised at the negativity expressed by some fans toward the entertainment they enjoy. Whether it be music, tv, film...whatever. I don't understand it. But that is ok. There is much I do not understand.

[mickeba]

Putting Niles with Daphne was catastrophic for the series. They should have driven away from the church at Daphne and Donnie's wedding and the series should have ended. In Mickeba's view.

[Forever Jung]

I'm glad they ended up together.

Don't get me wrong, it was great when Niles was pining for her for 7 funny years, but the feel good factor when they got together was pretty freaking awesome
No man should care that much about a couple in a TV show , but screw it

Afterwards there was a new dynamic to the characters, and although I wouldn't say it was better (or in some cases, believable) David & Jane still worked off each other very well and made it work for me.
It was still funny.

[mickeba]

I didn't like some of the changes that came with it. Daphne became way too cultured, that just didn't seem natural to me. One episode Daphne mentioned going to the opera and it just rang false. I will say though that while the show went down in quality, by Frasier standards, it was much better than most else on tv.

[CatNamedRudy]

I didn't like some of the changes that came with it. Daphne became way too cultured, that just didn't seem natural to me. One episode Daphne mentioned going to the opera and it just rang false. I will say though that while the show went down in quality, by Frasier standards, it was much better than most else on tv.

Though that was actually in an earlier season. That happened in First Date and she "explained" it by saying something about how living with Frasier all these years she had learned something about Divas. (which was amusing but I didn't buy the whole she suddenly knows about opera thing either).

[mickeba]

She took Niles to Bananarama! She'd have never gone to operas.

[Allison Chains]

I think it was a huge mistake for Niles and Daphne to get together. By doing so they took away a hilarious story line that allowed them to introduce a number of new characters and story lines. However, if they just had to get together they should have kept Daphne sweet and quirky. What they turned her into was a boring, insecure nag. I'll never understand why they did that!

[mickeba]

That episode where Daphne spied on Nile's patient was just too much.

[Allison Chains]

That episode where Daphne spied on Nile's patient was just too much.

I know, the insecurity that showed was pathetic. What were they thinking?!